Climb and grabbed questions


Rules Discussion


Just because a mist stalker has a climb speed doesn't mean it can strike while hanging on a wall, correct?

Bonus question a mist stalker has a single strike tentacle and grabs an opponent, does that mean the creature can no longer make attacks on other PC's or just an alternate tentacle can make the strike?


I don't see why not. In the battle cards, the mist stalker has tentacles. It looks like an octopus shrouded in mist, so I'd say it can climb and use its strikes, grab, and constrict just fine all at once. It would be nice if the bestiary entries themselves listed how many limbs creatures like this has

Only the limb that's holding a creature is occupied by grab. I count eight tentacles in the battle card picture for the mist stalker, so I'd say it has enough limbs to continue striking and even grabbing and constricting after the first victim


Lost Ohioian wrote:
Just because a mist stalker has a climb speed doesn't mean it can strike while hanging on a wall, correct?

I don't think it is absolutely specified anywhere, but my general rule of thumb is that every creature has two 'hands' unless their stat block says otherwise. No matter how many tentacles, hooves, wings, psuedopods, or vine limbs it is described with.

Using the climb action requires both hands to be free. Whatever 'hands' are for that creature. So it definitely couldn't be using weapons with those hands while climbing. I am not certain about unarmed attacks - I think that is left up to the players at the table to decide on.

Lost Ohioian wrote:
Bonus question a mist stalker has a single strike tentacle and grabs an opponent, does that mean the creature can no longer make attacks on other PC's or just an alternate tentacle can make the strike?

It has a 1-action strike with a tentacle. It doesn't specify how many tentacles it has, and it certainly doesn't restrict the Mist Stalker to only using one tentacle for attacks each round.

I would again go with the default that it has 2 'hands' that it can use. So if it is grabbing one creature with one tentacle, then it can attack with the second one. If it has two creatures grabbed, then it won't (mechanically) have any more tentacles to attack with. But Release is a free action...


breithauptclan wrote:
Using the climb action requires both hands to be free. Whatever 'hands' are for that creature.

I think it is important to distinguish between climb actions and using a climb speed. One is certainly more restrictive than the other. I think a climb speed means it can perform most if not all actions in its stat block while climbing.


A rule of thumb is creatures (more so than characters) made to have a climb speed (or other ability) are made to use it in encounters, so I think they should be able to attack with their natural attacks unless it specifies otherwise for a given creature's attack. Of course a spider would be able to attack while clinging to a web, you know? Same goes for this elemental. If a human can let go of a rockwall with one hand (to reach for another handhold usually, but you can do other things as well, both in real life and in the game, as you could interact while clinging to something between two climb actions), a creature used to climbing absolutely should be able to let go with one limb long enough to Strike.


ReyalsKanras wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
Using the climb action requires both hands to be free. Whatever 'hands' are for that creature.
I think it is important to distinguish between climb actions and using a climb speed. One is certainly more restrictive than the other. I think a climb speed means it can perform most if not all actions in its stat block while climbing.

Climb Speed still uses the Climb action. You just aren't flat-footed and don't have to roll Athletics for it - unless you want to, or are climbing in exceptional circumstances.

NPC characters - including enemies - aren't built using the same building rules as player characters. But once they are built, they follow the same tactical rules.


breithauptclan wrote:
NPC characters - including enemies - aren't built using the same building rules as player characters. But once they are built, they follow the same tactical rules.
This is demonstrably false. Easy example:
Nethys wrote:

Knocked Out and Dying

Source Core Rulebook pg. 459 4.0
Creatures cannot be reduced to fewer than 0 Hit Points. When most creatures reach 0 Hit Points, they die and are removed from play unless the attack was nonlethal, in which case they are instead knocked out for a significant amount of time (usually 1 minute or more). When undead and construct creatures reach 0 Hit Points, they are destroyed.

Player characters, their companions, and other significant characters and creatures don’t automatically die when they reach 0 Hit Points. Instead, they are knocked out and are at risk of death. At the GM’s discretion, villains, powerful monsters, special NPCs, and enemies with special abilities that are likely to bring them back to the fight (like ferocity, regeneration, or healing magic) can use these rules as well.

I agree the rules are not specific about creatures with additional limbs or even about creatures with limbs but no hands but it is unnecessarily restrictive to hold dedicated climbers, like spider monsters, to the standards of a bipedal (demi)human.


Monsters don't have feats listed
I think it is fair to assume that many of them have an equivalent of Combat climber (If it fürs the purpose the gm needs them for)

But Monsters are build different, never assume PC Rules applying to them


ReyalsKanras wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
NPC characters - including enemies - aren't built using the same building rules as player characters. But once they are built, they follow the same tactical rules.
This is demonstrably false.

An explicit override does not invalidate the general idea.

Also, the NPC enemies can use the PC death and dying rules if the GM wants them to. It is removed for convenience and to prevent PCs from taking time during the battle to continue attacking downed enemies or from having to go around and finish killing any enemies that managed to stabilize.

Trip works the same for PCs and NPCs. So does Demoralize. And Stride. And Climb. And Fly. And Shield Block.

There are Creature Abilities that can change things - just like Feats can for PCs.

And I do like the idea that Tactical Drongo has of giving a creature Combat Climber as a creature ability if it makes sense to do so.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Worth noting that if you apply the action rules too literally than you're going to run into weird problems like Nagas casting somatic spells without any limbs. You should apply some common sense if the strict reading doesn't make any. Personally, I'd let the mist stalker strike with its six other tentacles while climbing.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Worth noting that if you apply the action rules too literally than you're going to run into weird problems like Nagas casting somatic spells without any limbs.

Alternatively Nagas would mechanically still have two 'hands' (at least for casting with) even with the narrative description of having no limbs and the mechanical limitation of not being able to lift and manipulate objects.

Liberty's Edge

TBT Combat Climber should be included with having a Climb speed. I am not sure that many creatures with a Climb speed explicitly have Combat Climber or a similar ability.

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