Incorporeal Undead and Antimagic Field

[AlaskaRPGer]

I had a circumstance occur in my game today (which I DM) and I had to revise due to unintentionally creating a potentially unbeatable encounter.

So a specter (or any incorporeal undead, really) for whatever reason has the means to cast AMF on itself. Two questions:

1) Can it fly? It's flying ability doesn't seem to be magically based, so it should IMO.

2) How do you kill it? Spells that would normally affect an incorporeal creature won't work in an AMF. Magical weapons are suppressed. Summoned creatures can't hit it in the AMF. Only thing I can think of is lots of holy water.

3) Does its incorporeal attack work? I ruled that it could attack and do the 1d8 damage, but the energy drain couldn't work as that is an SU ability.

Thanks!

[Zarius]

Anything that is classified as an Ex, such as a Catfolk's Claws, works fine in an AMF. Anything that's an Su, such as the Claws granted by the Draconic of Abyssal sorcerer bloodlines, do not. Technically, the only reason undead and golems don't simply snuff out is that there's a rule that says they don't.

By MY think, pretty much everything about an incorporeal undead is magical, so I wouldn't have ANY of it's normal powers working.

It doesn't use wings to fly, so that would be an Su, on it's own. Incorporeality is listed as an Ex in the Universal Monster Rules, so it would work. It should be noted that it can also be lured out of the AMF. Or the AMF will eventually wear off. Other than that, holy water would be it. Or artifact weapons.

[Oyabun_Kyuubi]

Well the fight wouldnt be unbeatable unless it has heavy damage reduction.

Iirc the rules for incorperal creatures is that all damage done that isnt magical or because of the undead part positive energy still deals 50% damage. So while a 2d6+4 weapon maxes at 8 damage before criticals that doesnt mean its immune.

Edit: just read up. I would talk to your dm about possibly getting some holy silver in the future. Otherwise douse your weapons in holy water and have a cleric in the back blessing some more.

Theres always the option to run away and you could also dispell the antimagic field as a option.

[AlaskaRPGer]

Oyabun_Kyuubi wrote:

Well the fight wouldnt be unbeatable unless it has heavy damage reduction.

Iirc the rules for incorperal creatures is that all damage done that isnt magical or because of the undead part positive energy still deals 50% damage. So while a 2d6+4 weapon maxes at 8 damage before criticals that doesnt mean its immune.

Edit: just read up. I would talk to your dm about possibly getting some holy silver in the future. Otherwise douse your weapons in holy water and have a cleric in the back blessing some more.

Theres always the option to run away and you could also dispel the antimagic field as a option.

In this case I was/am the DM and just changed the spell the specter cast.

It was an interesting situation where the party was a powerful 15th level group in a situation where retreat wasn't an option, and didn't have holy water (who carries holy water when you have 7th level spells and +4 weapons?).

Non-magic weapons (silver or not) don't affect it. You can't DISPEL MAGIC an AMF, but you can Mage's Disjunction it....which they didn't have access to.

[Oyabun_Kyuubi]

AlaskaRPGer wrote:

Oyabun_Kyuubi wrote:

Well the fight wouldnt be unbeatable unless it has heavy damage reduction.

Iirc the rules for incorperal creatures is that all damage done that isnt magical or because of the undead part positive energy still deals 50% damage. So while a 2d6+4 weapon maxes at 8 damage before criticals that doesnt mean its immune.

Edit: just read up. I would talk to your dm about possibly getting some holy silver in the future. Otherwise douse your weapons in holy water and have a cleric in the back blessing some more.

Theres always the option to run away and you could also dispel the antimagic field as a option.

In this case I was/am the DM and just changed the spell the specter cast.

It was an interesting situation where the party was a powerful 15th level group in a situation where retreat wasn't an option, and didn't have holy water (who carries holy water when you have 7th level spells and +4 weapons?).

Non-magic weapons (silver or not) don't affect it. You can't DISPEL MAGIC an AMF, but you can Mage's Disjunction it....which they didn't have access to.

Ahs see more things ive stumbled around on. As for the holy water theoretically you dont need to "carry holy water" on you all you should need is an area outside the AMF and then use create water and bless water.

Im like 50% sure that the therein blessed weapon would at least hold its blessed holy status for at least 1 round to deal damage. Might be wrong tho.

[willuwontu]

Oyabun_Kyuubi wrote:

Iirc the rules for incorperal creatures is that all damage done that isnt magical or because of the undead part positive energy still deals 50% damage.

You do not remember correctly

incorporeal wrote:

An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms.

Also a blessed weapon would be suppressed as soon as it entered the AMF, creating holy water right outside of it would work though.

[Zarius]

Blessings are considered magic. So, unless your weapon was directly blessed by a god, no. It would be suppressed inside an AMF just like any other magic.

This is the problem with AMFs. There's only two types of magic guaranteed to work inside them: Artifacts and Deities. Not divine, Deities. Not god-granted, but actual gods', magic.

[AlaskaRPGer]

Oyabun_Kyuubi wrote:

AlaskaRPGer wrote:

Oyabun_Kyuubi wrote:

Well the fight wouldnt be unbeatable unless it has heavy damage reduction.

Iirc the rules for incorperal creatures is that all damage done that isnt magical or because of the undead part positive energy still deals 50% damage. So while a 2d6+4 weapon maxes at 8 damage before criticals that doesnt mean its immune.

Edit: just read up. I would talk to your dm about possibly getting some holy silver in the future. Otherwise douse your weapons in holy water and have a cleric in the back blessing some more.

Theres always the option to run away and you could also dispel the antimagic field as a option.

In this case I was/am the DM and just changed the spell the specter cast.

It was an interesting situation where the party was a powerful 15th level group in a situation where retreat wasn't an option, and didn't have holy water (who carries holy water when you have 7th level spells and +4 weapons?).

Non-magic weapons (silver or not) don't affect it. You can't DISPEL MAGIC an AMF, but you can Mage's Disjunction it....which they didn't have access to.

Ahs see more things ive stumbled around on. As for the holy water theoretically you dont need to "carry holy water" on you all you should need is an area outside the AMF and then use create water and bless water.

Im like 50% sure that the therein blessed weapon would at least hold its blessed holy status for at least 1 round to deal damage. Might be wrong tho.

This was discussed. They were in a smallish contained area, and BLESS WATER takes 1 min to cast.....and as soon as the specter gets to ya with the AMF on it, you're out of luck.

So yea, I just changed the spell it cast and we all agreed I stumbled upon an inadvertently powerful combo that I agreed not to use again until the party has access to the hard counter of MAGE'S DISJUNCTON.