I am trying to get a better understanding of the interactions of these four effects, because it seems strange how it works. My character is a Divine Hunter Paladin. The enemies are under the effects of Mirror Image and Displacement. If I use Divine Bond to add the Seeking special property to my bow, I gain the following benefit:
A seeking weapon veers toward its target, negating any miss chances that would otherwise apply, such as from concealment. The wielder still has to aim the weapon at the right square. Arrows mistakenly shot into an empty space, for example, do not veer and hit invisible enemies, even if they are nearby.
This seems like it would ignore the miss chance from Displacement, but I would still need to contend with the Mirror Image.
On the other hand, the last two sentences of Mirror Image says:
An attacker must be able to see the figments to be fooled. If you are invisible or the attacker is blind, the spell has no effect (although the normal miss chances still apply).
So, if I see what square the enemy is in, then close my eyes before firing my bow, I wind up with no miss chance (the Seeking property takes care of that), and I don't have to worry about mirror images? I can shoot better by blinding myself than I can when I can see? Something seems off about that.
An alternate interpretation might be that the seeking property treats mirror images as a miss chance (example: 7 images means there is an 87.5% miss chance), and therefore ignores mirror images. But, the effects of displacement and invisibility are explicitly called "miss chances", making me think that is a game mechanic rather than any arbitrary random mechanic that might cause an attacker to miss some percent of the time. This seems more consistent with logic (blinding yourself doesn't make you better at shooting a bow), but less balanced overall.
I could not find these specific interactions discussed elsewhere.
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You can find plenty of discussion about Mirror images and voluntary blindness. The consensus is that closing your eyes to avoid the chance of hitting the wrong image work (especially if you have blind-fighting). There are a lot of discussions about how long you will have to keep your eyes closed.
I am in the camp that thinks that it should work as power attack: after you have closed your eyes to get the benefit you have to keep them closed until the start of your next turn. Pathfinder is turn-based, but it tries to depict reality, so you are making and receiving attacks at the same time.
Note that missing while your eyes are closed doesn't remove the mirror images, as you aren't interacting with them.
About mirror image as miss chance: miss chance is a game term, and the mirror image effect doesn't fall under that definition. You can house rule differently, but it will require some work to correct how it works.
Seeking will not counteract the miss chance from blind firing. If you close your eyes you suffer a 50% miss chance not because the target is concealed but because YOU CANNOT SEE. Just because you aimed before you closed your eyes doesn’t mean you are still aiming at the same spot when you release. You cannot aim the weapon at a specific square while blind, because of this seeking will NOT apply. Firing blind is the same as accidentally firing through a square containing an invisible foe, which seeking explicitly calls out will NOT trigger the effect.
This is going to sound a bit dumb, but by the RAW can ranged attacks even be made without line of sight though? The combat rules state that ranged attacks require line of sight. The Seeking enhancement implies that ranged attacks can be made to empty squares, however that may still be by having line of sight of the square. I know the total concealment section talks about attacking squares, but aside from not specifying that ranged can do this (which I know is kind of silly to require specifying), it seems logical that it would still mean seeing the square that one wants to attack into when it's a ranged attack.
Logically/realistically speaking (instead of the silly previous paragraph of going by a strict literal RAW) aiming at the square/target then closing eyes and firing without changing aim would have the same effect as not closing ones eyes, meaning that it should have a chance of hitting an image. and if they close their eyes before they aim then they wouldn't be able to aim at the right square/target that they would want to.
Because of these reasons, I'd say that it would not work with a seeking ranged attack. You'd have to be in melee using a Heartseeker weapon instead.
From what I've read, real-world blindfolded archery is very difficult to get bullseyes, but fairly easy to come close. In fact, I've seen a couple of young archers being idiots and playing around with blindfolds. They usually hit the target first try even when blindfolded. Nowhere near the bullseye, but often on target. I realize my personal experiences may not translate on the whole, and I have very little experience with this. But these experiences seem to imply that in the real world, even though blind archery is more difficult to be accurate, it is not that much harder from sighted archery to be in the ballpark. A five-foot square is fairly easy to target, even when blindfolded, especially for an experienced archer.
Of course, Pathfinder is a system of rules, not a perfect representation of reality, so point taken nonetheless.
Seeking will not counteract the miss chance from blind firing. If you close your eyes you suffer a 50% miss chance not because the target is concealed but because YOU CANNOT SEE. Just because you aimed before you closed your eyes doesn’t mean you are still aiming at the same spot when you release. You cannot aim the weapon at a specific square while blind, because of this seeking will NOT apply. Firing blind is the same as accidentally firing through a square containing an invisible foe, which seeking explicitly calls out will NOT trigger the effect.
That could be a good way to rule it. Do you have a source that indicates that firing blind is the same as accidentally firing through a square? Or that the square targeted is somehow random? Seeking specifies it negates any miss chance. It does not say it will veer towards a square you do not target. And the discussions that it is impossible to target a square you cannot see may apply. Does anyone have a rules reference they could point me to? Or like others have said, is this strictly up to the DM, and no explicit rules say one way or another?
If you want strictly RAW then most of what has been said in this thread doesn’t even have a chance to apply. Joesi actually provided the strict RAW on the situation. A blind creature cannot make a ranged attack by strict RAW. Ranged attacks require line of sight to perform, and blindness has this rule: “All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Perception checks based on sight) automatically fail.” Ranged attacks requiring line of sight makes them “activities that rely on vision” and as per blindness, automatically fail. Most DMs run various houserules for blindness and ranged attacks to give the parties dedicated archer at least a slim chance of doing something if blinded. Closing your eyes just before you shoot is willingly accepting the blinded condition and as a result the shot automatically misses. Veering doesn’t affect the shot because there is nolonger a miss chance it just misses period.
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Seeking will deal with the displacement, but for mirror image you want the Truthful property. Unfortunately that's melee only, so you'd need to convince your GM to allow it.
Seeking will deal with the displacement, but for mirror image you want the Truthful property. Unfortunately that's melee only, so you'd need to convince your GM to allow it.
Good idea! But, the DM said no.
If you want strictly RAW then most of what has been said in this thread doesn’t even have a chance to apply. Joesi actually provided the strict RAW on the situation. A blind creature cannot make a ranged attack by strict RAW. Ranged attacks require line of sight to perform, and blindness has this rule: “All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Perception checks based on sight) automatically fail.” Ranged attacks requiring line of sight makes them “activities that rely on vision” and as per blindness, automatically fail. Most DMs run various houserules for blindness and ranged attacks to give the parties dedicated archer at least a slim chance of doing something if blinded. Closing your eyes just before you shoot is willingly accepting the blinded condition and as a result the shot automatically misses. Veering doesn’t affect the shot because there is nolonger a miss chance it just misses period.
My DM found the appropriate rules. The Environment rules describe how ranged attacks while Blind work:
All opponents have total concealment from a blinded creature, so the blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat. A blinded creature must first pinpoint the location of an opponent in order to attack the right square; if the blinded creature launches an attack without pinpointing its foe, it attacks a random square within its reach. For ranged attacks or spells against a foe whose location is not pinpointed, roll to determine which adjacent square the blinded creature is facing; its attack is directed at the closest target that lies in that direction.
If your DM thinks that closing your eyes immediately before firing somehow negates the fact that you have already pinpointed your target, that would certainly stymie your ability significantly since you will be firing at a random target in a potentially random direction, but you can still do it!