Gunslingers and MAP


Rules Discussion


I have several questions about Gunslinger feats and multiple attack penalties.

Paired Shot-2A
Your shots hit simultaneously. Make two Strikes, one with each of your two ranged weapons, each using your current multiple attack penalty ... This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty.

This one seems fairly straight-forward: a gunslinger could Paired Shot and then Risky Reload, you would roll two attacks at 0 MAP, and then one at -5.
But then there's this-

Twin Shot Knockdown-2A
Make two Strikes against the same target, one with each of the required weapons.

OK, so no mention of MAP. Are both rolls made at 0 MAP, like Paired Shots? Are both rolls made at 0 MAP because the feat doesn't have the Attack trait? Is each attack made using the normal MAP calculation: 0 for the first, -5 for the second?
Now on to-

Dance of Thunder-3A
Take any of the following actions you choose in any order: Step, Strike against a target within your firearm’s first range increment, and Interact to reload. If you attempted a Strike and it succeeded, you can repeat these three actions again in any order. If you attempted a Strike in the second set and succeeded, you can repeat the actions one last time.

Again, no mention of MAP, and the feat doesn't have the Attack trait. Is each attack roll made at 0 MAP, or at normal 0/-5/-10 MAP?
Finally, there is-

Two-Weapon Fusillade-1A
You attack with both your weapons in a furious barrage. Strike twice, once with each weapon.

Still no mention of MAP and no Attack trait. Does each attack roll get the same MAP(a la Paired Shot), or is one at a -5 MAP due to two Strikes?


If it doesn't say, it uses the default.


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third attack after paired shot are -10 or 8

if it doesn't say any attack ignore map increase than map increase as normal


Thanks for those responses.

On Paired Shot- yes, I knew it should be -10 for the additional Strike, I just brain-cramped.

On Dance of Thunder- I get that MAP could work normally if the others work normally. And I can see the benefit of the feat in getting what amounts to 9 total actions for a turn.

On Twin Shot Knockdown- I can see the benefit of the feat in giving the gunslinger a bonus ranged knockdown attempt for free. Seems a little weak for a level 10 feat.
I assume that I as the player just make the choice of which shot "comes first" at 0 MAP based on the accuracy of the gear?

Same for Two-Weapon Fusillade- Do I just choose which weapon is being fired at 0 MAP?


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Yes, you get to decide the order (before rolling, of course).


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Iberison wrote:

I have several questions about Gunslinger feats and multiple attack penalties.

Paired Shot-2A
Your shots hit simultaneously. Make two Strikes, one with each of your two ranged weapons, each using your current multiple attack penalty ... This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty.

This one seems fairly straight-forward: a gunslinger could Paired Shot and then Risky Reload, you would roll two attacks at 0 MAP, and then one at -5.

As already mentioned by 25speedforseaweedleshy but to detail it better for more people that fall in this topic to understand. When you see "Make two Strikes...each using your current multiple attack penalty...This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty." means that the 2 attacks is made with no MAP but when you try to do the 3º it will be counted as if you already had made 2 attacks. So it's your 2nd MAP (MAP -10 for normal, MAP -8 for agile, MAP -6 for flurry rangers, MAP -4 for flurry ranger with agile).

Iberison wrote:

But then there's this-

Twin Shot Knockdown-2A
Make two Strikes against the same target, one with each of the required weapons.

OK, so no mention of MAP. Are both rolls made at 0 MAP, like Paired Shots? Are both rolls made at 0 MAP because the feat doesn't have the Attack trait? Is each attack made using the normal MAP calculation: 0 for the first, -5 for the second?

When MAP isn't mentioned so it's act as normal. You second attack suffer from an increased MAP effect.

The lack of attack trait doesn't matter here because the action calls Strikeas subordinated action and Strike have the attack trait.
Iberison wrote:

Now on to-

Dance of Thunder-3A
Take any of the following actions you choose in any order: Step, Strike against a target within your firearm’s first range increment, and Interact to reload. If you attempted a Strike and it succeeded, you can repeat these three actions again in any order. If you attempted a Strike in the second set and succeeded, you can repeat the actions one last time.

Again, no mention of MAP, and the feat doesn't have the Attack trait. Is each attack roll made at 0 MAP, or at normal 0/-5/-10 MAP?

It's normal map. For each Strike your next Strike in this turn will have it's MAP increased.

Iberison wrote:

Finally, there is-

Two-Weapon Fusillade-1A
You attack with both your weapons in a furious barrage. Strike twice, once with each weapon.

Still no mention of MAP and no Attack trait. Does each attack roll get the same MAP(a la Paired Shot), or is one at a -5 MAP due to two Strikes?

Your MAP for second attack is -5.


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In general you'll notice that feats (usually) do one or the other:

They either give an accuracy increase but no action economy enhancers (pair shots is 2 attacks for 2 actions, but gives the second attack an effective +5)

Or do not give accuracy increase and instead are an action economy enhancer, usually in the form of either 2 attacks for 1 action, or a "free" action after a 2 action activity (the free knockdown, fussilade, etc)

That's consistent across classes (Flurry vs twin slice as an example)

Sovereign Court

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Iberison wrote:
Again, no mention of MAP, and the feat doesn't have the Attack trait.

The others have given some good explanations on the other points, so I'll take this one.

Actions/activities with subordinate actions (such as a feat that says "make two Strikes") don't get the traits of the subordinate actions. Those traits stay on the subordinate actions, and still do all the things they'd normally do. So the first Strike has the attack trait, and the second one does as well so it gets MAP.

But the feat doesn't have an attack trait, because then you'd have three attack traits for only two actual attacks. Which would be a pretty bad deal!

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