Paladin v. Warpriest


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Mysterious Stranger wrote:
If you are factoring in spells for the warpreist you have to do the same for the paladin especially for burst damage.

A 12th level Paladin has three 2nd level spells, and Litany of Righteousness allows a ~DC16 will save to resist. Let's take a CR 10 enemy, monster creation guidelines state +9 for poor save and +13 for good save, that's 30% and 10% chance to land the spell, respectively. You would be lucky to land a single of those spells in a given day.

If we start to include pre-buffing, the comparison gets really complicated, as we need to come up with an encounter progression (to account for different durations), include what Blessings the WP has, include what race they have, and so on.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
If both those spells are up and the paladin is smiting evil the damage potential is absurd.

Or they activate Aura of Justice and watch as the party's ranged martials and pouncers kill the boss in a heartbeat.

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
I've never built an Arsenal Chaplain

Apart from the blessings, you can build it exactly the same as other Warpriests. That's part of the archetype's appeal, it changes very little about the class. Sacred Armor is almost useless due to swift action competition, Channel Energy isn't worth spending fervor on, and the Sacred Weapon damage increase is worse than Weapon Training no matter the weapon. The AWP feat is a new options, but as a caster, you don't need it nearly as much as a Fighter. Warrior Spirit is still pretty awesome, of course.

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Why do we keep calculating a vanilla WP as being a falchion wielder?

Because Mysterious Stranger's arguments are much weaker when the Warpriest can make proper use of their bonus feats.

MrCharisma wrote:
(with Fate's Favoured it's 5d6+10 = ~27.5)

Fey Foundling, you mean.


Derklord wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
If both those spells are up and the paladin is smiting evil the damage potential is absurd.
Or they activate Aura of Justice and watch as the party's ranged martials and pouncers kill the boss in a heartbeat.

This is my nightmare. I have that megadungeon game and very soon they're going to hit L11. The paladin's cohort alone is ranged based, not to mention the u-rogue PC is a switch hitter with a +2 Comp Longbow (+2). Boss fights are just gonna be:

Round 1: we open the door to the dungeon room. Aura of Justice. Hail of Arrows. So, what loot do we find?


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Derklord wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
If both those spells are up and the paladin is smiting evil the damage potential is absurd.
Or they activate Aura of Justice and watch as the party's ranged martials and pouncers kill the boss in a heartbeat.

This is my nightmare. I have that megadungeon game and very soon they're going to hit L11. The paladin's cohort alone is ranged based, not to mention the u-rogue PC is a switch hitter with a +2 Comp Longbow (+2). Boss fights are just gonna be:

Round 1: we open the door to the dungeon room. Aura of Justice. Hail of Arrows. So, what loot do we find?

Depending on what the enemy might know about the party they could be prepared with wind wall


You experience a strong gust of wind that blows all your arrows back in your direction and they clatter all over the floor below you. The Windwall spell the Shaman had cast in response to the door opening prevents your ranged attacks from being effective. It also looks like they are about to start casting another spell... Roll initiative. [Use spells to help minimize the effects of ranged attacks]

Alternatively: You see the subject of your smite evil attempt riddled with enough arrows to down an rampaging elephant but still standing despite the grievous wounds inflicted upon it. Oddly, several of the surrounding enemies bear wounds that offer a striking resemblance to the wounds of your target, yet lack any signs of the arrows to cause them. The nearby shaman lifts their holy symbol in the air and releases a burst of healing energy that knits together the majority of the wounds shared by the group of enemies. [Sharing HP/damage through spells like Shield other and then healing through channel energy is very effective]


Derklord wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
(with Fate's Favoured it's 5d6+10 = ~27.5)
Fey Foundling, you mean.

Oh derp, yes that's what I meant.


Litany of righteousness is imho a wash.
It is pretty hard for a Paladin to boost the DC of his spells, if he has a witch with him that evil eyes and possible misfortunes the adversary it gets better, but I think a warpriest would have more varied ways to make use of it.

It is a bit weirdly written concerning the requirement of other good creatures also benefitting from it if they have a good aura, but that it has to come from a subtype or a class feature (Like, a Chaotic Good 15 Barb has a decently strong good aura without any of that).


DeathlessOne wrote:
You experience a strong gust of wind that blows all your arrows back in your direction and they clatter all over the floor below you. The Windwall spell the Shaman had cast in response to the door opening prevents your ranged attacks from being effective. It also looks like they are about to start casting another spell... Roll initiative. [Use spells to help minimize the effects of ranged attacks]

Nitpicking, but you can't ready actions outside of combat as readying is a Special Initiative Action.

That shaman would need to win initiative if they want to act first, just like the rest of the class!


Counter-Nitpick: Shaman was aware of the party getting ready to kick in the door and gets a surprise round, which he uses to ready an action (how the shaman knew isn't relevant). Nowhere was it stated that the PCs knew anything was beyond the door, only that their actions occurred on round 1.

That aside, no general statement is going to withstand universal scrutiny in a system where no one is aware of all the factors except for the GM, and being overly critical of a specific scenario that was never described to be a universal solution to all scenarios is an exercise in futility.

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