Backpack carrying capacity, would dangly bits count towards it?

[Senko]

I'm using the old 3.0 values for carrying items i.e.

Backpack weight=2lbs holds 40lbs
Large Sack weight = 1lbs holds 60lbs
Small Sack weight = 0.5lbs holds 30 lbs
Large Belt Pouch weight = 0.5lbs holds 10lbs (fuzzy memory on this one)
Small Belt Pouch weight = nil holds 1lbs
Pack Saddles = as much as the mount can carry
Saddlebags weight = ?? holds 30lbs each (in pairs, but fuzzy memory on this one too).

but I see a backpack as the camping style with a number of straps to tie things onto it. For example two straps underneath to strap a bedroll/blanket combo to the bottom, straps on the sides you can hang things like a bundle of torches or a pot from. So I'm just looking advice would you treat the 40lbs as the maximum weight a backpack can hold or would that just be for things inside it and if you can make a valid argument of why something would be strapped to the outside it wont? I'm specifcally looking at the cooking kit where everything fits in the pot and weighs 16 pounds. Since my load is at 53 lbs if I can hang the pot off something I'm looking at the gear inside the pack weighing less than 40 lbs not counting bedroll, blanket, torches, handaxe, etc.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Too me it is going to depend on what it is. The straps to attach things are probably not that sturdy so hooking something heavy would risk the chance of the strap breaking. The other thing to consider is even if the strap is strong enough to hold the item something too big is going to be awkward to move in.

In the case of the cooking kit, I would say it cannot be hooked up to the outside without causing problems and has a pretty good chance of breaking the strap. A better solution would be to just get a heavy strap made for it and sling it over your shoulder. It is not a magic item, so you don’t need to worry about taking up a slot or not being able to not be able to do that and wear a backpack.

[Senko]

Hmmm could be a bit awkward but I guess its the best I can hope for, thanks.

Handaxe (for wood chopping): left waist.
Dagger/Beltpouch: Right waist.
Backpack: Back
Quarterstaff: hand
Cooking Kit: Pot hanging on right side of body.

Its going to be very dented with me dropping it to the ground.

[Mysterious Stranger]

You are thinking of a modern aluminum pot. The pot is probably cast iron and those do not dent easily.

[TxSam88]

RAW, anything in, on, or attached to the backpack counts against it's carrying capacity.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Backpack in PF1 = an abstraction.

Backpack, Common wrote:

This leather knapsack has one large pocket that closes with a buckled strap and holds about 2 cubic feet of material. Some may have one or more smaller pockets on the sides.

The backpack in PF1 doesn't have a weight limit; rather, you have an Encumbrance limit. If your Str is 10 and you're a size Medium bipedal creature, you can carry 33 lbs before you're penalized. The weight of what you're carrying is distributed between the pocket of the backpack, its straps, belt straps at your hips, etc.

Why bother detailing carrying containers on your PC at all? B/c if your GM is a stickler for the rules, how you're carrying stuff will determine the action it takes to retrieve it. Backpacks for example have the buckling strap holding the main pocket closed, and presumably other such secure closures on its other parts. That means that you need to open the container which is a Move action that provokes, and then retrieve the stored item which is a Move action that provokes.

For these reasons, PF1 set down descriptions or rules for other containers such as bandoliers, pouches with quick release strings, or Adventurer's Sashes that can be left open, so that PCs can grab things from these containers PURELY under the "retrieve a stowed item" rule (a Move action that provokes).

And of course there's yet OTHER containers like spring-loaded wrist sheaths or spring-loaded scroll cases that permit even faster access to their contents. Also magic items such as Handy Haversacks. Detailing your containers and inventory placement is about action management, not necessarily weight distribution.

If you want to say your cooking kit is hanging from your backpack, or rather is securely fastened to the outside of your backpack, that's fine; it counts as 16 lbs towards your Carrying Capacity and retrieving it is a Full Round action that provokes. On the other hand if a cooking kit is reasonably 2 cu feet worth of material, you could say that it's INSIDE your backpack which still adds 16 lbs to your carrying capacity and requires a Full Round action to retrieve, which provokes.

Incidentally for your PC to be carrying 69 lbs worth of gear and still be at Light Load, your Str needs to be at least a 16 or better. If not, you're looking at a reduced Max Dex bonus to AC, a skill check penalty to all the same skills affected by an Armor Check Penalty, and reduced speed.

Of course all of the above is based purely on RAW and needs to be enforced by the GM. If the GM isn't monitoring and penalizing PCs based on Carrying Capacity, all of this is moot.

[Chell Raighn]

TxSam88 wrote:

RAW, anything in, on, or attached to the backpack counts against it's carrying capacity.

As far as I can tell looking at the rules for backpacks in both PF and 3.0, this is blatantly false. Carry capacity is per container, not the pack as a whole. Some packs have multiple small containers with their own capacities in addition to the main container. Containers without defined capacities, can only hold items of negligible weight (3.0) or space (PF).

[Mark Hoover 330]

No one asks where a weapon or shield is carried; where is it EQUIPPED, yes, but not where it's carried. That's because there are no mechanics to this, save for the RAW that drawing or sheathing a weapon is a Move action unless you have a +1 or greater BAB in which case drawing a weapon can be combined with a Move, Quick Draw that lets you draw a weapon as a Free action, Quick Stow for not provoking when sheathing a weapon and so on.

In other words, it doesn't matter where you dangle your pots and pans from on your carrying containers. As I said above, it only matters how much weight it contributes to your CC in terms of Light, Medium or Heavy Load and if it resides INSIDE a container, how securely closed that container is for the purposes of using actions to retrieve it.

Chell Raighn, can you link to the ruling on containers without defined capacities only holding negligible space? I'm not understanding that and wanted better clarification. From what I can see, there is a clearly defined capacity of 2 Cubic Feet inside a backpack's main pocket. This makes a backpack not weight dependent; you can cram that space full of hundreds of coins weighing about 8-9 lbs, roughly 120 lbs worth of liquid, or a bunch of miscellaneous small items of varying weights.

Don't get hung up on how much weight a backpack can hold, but try and consider how much your PC can. From there, work backwards.

[Azothath]

only a magical container like a Handy Haversack makes weight *magically* disappear.

[Hugo Rune]

To me the backpack and sacks having a capacity serve a dual purpose.

1. They limit how much a character can carry to realistic[ish] levels so the fighter isn't carrying 20000CP, 4 lifesize framed portraits and two carpets in treasure plus their weapons and adventuring gear.

2. They allow a character to quickly go from encumbered to unencumbered by dropping the backpack or sack. Related to this is it's easier to track what equipment the party loses when the raiding bugbears run off with the party's backpacks.

[Azothath]

as far as sticking stuff ONTO a mundane backpack - you are in GM territory. Stickler GMs will ask "What's on top in your backpack?" and then track it.

I'd check out the other backpacks as those RAW descriptions limit what you can do without paying for more. I think the common and weaponrack are worth the price, others not so much. I'd agree that for lower Str PCs backpacks give them the option to dump excess weight relatively quickly.

Bandoliers ($0.5) can organize stuff and create more 'easy access' items. Do not buy the adventurer's sash (way overpriced) $20.

If your low level character has encumbrance problems... get a horse.

[Senko]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

No one asks where a weapon or shield is carried; where is it EQUIPPED, yes, but not where it's carried. That's because there are no mechanics to this, save for the RAW that drawing or sheathing a weapon is a Move action unless you have a +1 or greater BAB in which case drawing a weapon can be combined with a Move, Quick Draw that lets you draw a weapon as a Free action, Quick Stow for not provoking when sheathing a weapon and so on.

In other words, it doesn't matter where you dangle your pots and pans from on your carrying containers. As I said above, it only matters how much weight it contributes to your CC in terms of Light, Medium or Heavy Load and if it resides INSIDE a container, how securely closed that container is for the purposes of using actions to retrieve it.

Chell Raighn, can you link to the ruling on containers without defined capacities only holding negligible space? I'm not understanding that and wanted better clarification. From what I can see, there is a clearly defined capacity of 2 Cubic Feet inside a backpack's main pocket. This makes a backpack not weight dependent; you can cram that space full of hundreds of coins weighing about 8-9 lbs, roughly 120 lbs worth of liquid, or a bunch of miscellaneous small items of varying weights.

Don't get hung up on how much weight a backpack can hold, but try and consider how much your PC can. From there, work backwards.

We play different games I think. Mine tracks this kind of thing because we like that realism.

[Mark Hoover 330]

People tracking encumbrance: per RAW:

Carrying Capacity wrote:

If your character is wearing armor, use the worse figure (from armor or from load) for each category. Do not stack the penalties.

So first, what kind of armor, if any, is the PC wearing? If Medium or heavier, don't worry about it. If Light or none, THEN review the weight of what they're carrying. To the other extreme, check to see if the PC dump statted their Str. A 7 Str has a max Light load of 23 lbs; 10 Str is 33. Meanwhile, an 18 Str PC can carry 100 lbs before they have to worry about Medium Load.

A frail elf wizard, 7 Str, needs to wear clothes and carry a spellbook at the bare minimum. An Explorer's Outfit and a mundane Spellbook comes out to 11 lbs, so they're probably not managing much more. A human Bounty Hunter Slayer on the other hand, built primarily for Dex but with a 13 Str can only wear Light armor and might have a lot of mundane gear in the early levels. If they've spent 33 lbs of their 50 lb max Light Load on wearing an Explorer's Outfit and Chain Shirt Armor, best believe we want to know what's in their backpack.

My point from earlier though still stands: none of what I've just said about Encumbrance and Carrying Capacity has anything to do with the difference between putting a mess kit IN, or ON a backpack. It doesn't matter; what matters is the PC's Str relative to the type of Armor they're wearing and the combined weight of all their gear.

Last, but certainly not least... have the STRONG PC in the party carry a lot of people's stuff. Maybe not stuff people are going to need in a fight mind you, but an extra quiver of arrows for the ranger or the sack of coins you just found in the dungeon.

[Senko]

Sure if your happy with the "I shove the gold in my abstract weight of holding option. We prefer to do the where have you play tetris to fit everything in. It can mean that you have to dig stuff out of your backpack to get at the mirror that's at the bottom but you can also stick your gold halfway down to make it harder to steal. Yours is easier but it gives me at least images of skyrim and other games where its just this floating inventory of items.

"I pickpocket the message, his gold oh and I'll take that pair of underpants too."
"Why are you stealing his underwear?"
"So when he gets home he'll wonder why someone stole his underwear but left his pants."

My groups generally like world building and are happy to spend a session or two designing the compound we'll build and drawing it up, tracking rations and candles/torches or the like. Its why I was happy with mysterious strangers comment the straps on backpack probably couldn't hold a lot of weight but you can run some cord through the pots handle to have it over your shoulder. Its also why I get annoyed with "It's just a game" style answers. I want my world building and have bought several sourcebooks that focus on the non-adventuring world including axial tilts and their effect on weather, theories on how spellcasting would affect general life e.g. continual flame lanterns in the rich districts, candle lanterns in the middle ones and no light in the poor except that shed from the occasional house.

[Mark Hoover 330]

PF1 is a game of abstraction. If I'm accepting a premise that a dragon the size of a school bus can glide through the air without an anatomy resembling a honeybee, then I can accept other things on faith. One of these I tell new players about are Combat Ready and Deep Storage items.

Combat Ready: anything you expect to use in combat regularly. Weapons, shields, some Alchemical items, power components, holy symbols, consumable magic items, ammunition and so on. These go in pouches, bandoliers, Adventurer's Sashes and so on and they require a Move action to retrieve which provokes, unless its drawing a weapon which has its own rules

Deep Storage: kit items, tools (including Thieves' Tools mind you), non-combat gear and what not. These are items you intend to use either between fights, like torches, or a couple times/day like mess kits. These items are contained IN something - backpacks, baskets, chests, locked cases etc. These require a Move action to open the container and a separate Move action to retrieve the stowed item and both provoke

At level 1 and when they level, I ask my players to send me character sheets. One of the checks I do is to look over the gear they say their carrying, check carrying capacities and see that they've got appropriate containers. Combat Ready stuff that doesn't have an obvious container I assume is just strapped to the PC's belt. If the PC is into Medium Load, I tell the player and they can adjust if they'd like.

When they pick up loot, I use a bit of common sense. If the treasure is all small stuff like coins and gems and the paladin or bard-barian has a handy haversack, I'm not going to sweat it. If on the other hand the u-rogue is trying to walk out of a dungeon room with a 6' tall ornate, wrought-iron candlestand, I'm going to raise a concern.

By going on like this I've never once had a player scrambling through their backpack for something in combat. I HAVE had players get mad b/c their consumable magic items got nicked by pickpockets, but I keep that kind of PC targeting to a minimum.

As far as narrative, worldbuilding and such goes, I have 2 campaigns running, both with 3 page player handouts on the home settlements I'm using. In both games, the players lost the hard copies.

In the megadungeon campaign there was an elaborate arcane caster society that originally built the dungeon. In several places there are statues or carvings depicting one type of caster or another, noting the caste system of the old society and giving clues as to where things are in the dungeon. The PCs have instead just made their own maps and only care about the stonework for Cover when using Stealth.

I like worldbuilding and creating an inviting tapestry of fictional narrative for my players to engage with. My players are 7 people that either have 3.5 hours on a Thursday night or 7 hours 1/month to take away from kids, spouses, work etc in order to slay monsters, get treasure, and faff about with their friends. If THEY don't care what kind of lighting is used in the Quayside District of Dunspar or who the Abadaran Wardrex is, I'm not going to spend 5-10 minutes going back over that every time they enter the area.

Rules and Narrative can be 2 separate things. Using abstraction or brevity can be helpful in running a game. If position in a backpack is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to come up as an issue in one of my games, I won't worry about it.

[Senko]

As I said which is fine for you and your games but other people like myself enjoy different things.

[Derklord]

Senko wrote:

We play different games I think. Mine tracks this kind of thing because we like that realism.

In that case you should be able to resolve your initial question yourself. Can you, in real life, continue to hang heavy stuff onto a backpack, as long as you can lift them? Or is weight distribution, securing things in place so that they don't move around, and the backpack not being too heavy as to not make the shoulder straps to uncomfortable important?

[Senko]

Derklord wrote:

Senko wrote:

We play different games I think. Mine tracks this kind of thing because we like that realism.

In that case you should be able to resolve your initial question yourself. Can you, in real life, continue to hang heavy stuff onto a backpack, as long as you can lift them? Or is weight distribution, securing things in place so that they don't move around, and the backpack not being too heavy as to not make the shoulder straps to uncomfortable important?

I could but I also want second opinions because in real life I have dealt with both scenarios. Backpacks that can have things strapped on the outside and be fine as well as ones that are so poorly made they tear to pieces when you are using them solely as intended to store items inside. So I am getting some second opinions to help me make a judgement call. Is a pathfinder backpack able to take 40 lbs then starts tearing or can it take 40 lbs in the central section but still have some things strapped on outside as it puts the weight and pressure on different parts than the base of the pack.

[Derklord]

In my real life experience, the limiting factor in a backpack is the shoulder straps - both for what the material can hold, and for what can be comfortably worn. That makes the total weight the important boundary.
This (in my opinion) perfectly matches the ingame text, which gives a weight limit, not a volume limit.

Hope this helps.

[Senko]

Derklord wrote:

In my real life experience, the limiting factor in a backpack is the shoulder straps - both for what the material can hold, and for what can be comfortably worn. That makes the total weight the important boundary.
This (in my opinion) perfectly matches the ingame text, which gives a weight limit, not a volume limit.

Hope this helps.

It does thought the backpacks in pathfinder don't have that but I can work with it and the old stats. Doesn't matter if its in it, on a strap or other the backpack can only handle X weight before it breaks and you need to find other options for more.

[Derklord]

Huh, could have sworn...

Indeed, the backpack description in UE gives a volume limit, but no weight limit. Realistically it should really have both limites, but still... huh.

[Mark Hoover 330]

I don't have UE but look at equipment on AoN and the SRD. In neither site are there weight limits; the Belt Pouch doesn't even have a volume. This is what leads me to think that the weight of what goes into your containers is more about what the PC can reasonably carry than the weight limit of what the container can hold.

Here's an inconsistency to ponder: the belt pouch I linked above says it holds up to 100-200 coins (up to 4 lbs per the 50 coins = 1 lb rule) or 2 apples. 10 common sling bullets weigh 5 lbs and are described as being held in "a leather pouch." So, since a belt pouch can be made of leather, are we to understand that a belt pouch is smaller or otherwise inferior to a sling bullet pouch? Because, based on the fact that 10 sling bullets cost 1 SP and come with a 5 lb carrying pouch and a belt pouch costs 1 GP and only holds 4 lbs, it's more cost effective to buy a bunch of sling bullet pouches, empty them, and then have the superior ammo pouches to hold more weight overall.

Shenanigans. You want to tie a mess kit to your backpack? Fine. You don't want to? Fine.

[Anguish]

I understand Senko's desire to figure out what's fair for the playstyle they want to play, despite not sharing it myself.

Senko, I think since you're working towards realism, you need to consider the period this is supposed to be in. Older materials tended to be more... hardy... than today's in a lot of ways (though not in all). The construction of the backpack in question will be less modern and functional, but the actual components like straps will be stronger. Leather over thin, cheap nylon straps. But the actual construction methods will be primitive and poor.

High-end modern camping equipment is constructed well, and engineered. RPG equipment is constructed poorly, I'd think. So while the straps themselves might not break, the stitching is probably on par with cheap mass-produced modern stuff, not the good stuff.

That all said... I think a compromise might be to get your DM to generate a price for a masterwork backpack. One that is actually constructed with care... the pinnacle of RPG backpacks that aren't magical.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Masterwork Flying Straps are obviously not meant to secure gear to backpacks, but for 80 GP these massive straps secure a Small sized creature to a giant bat with no fear of breakage in the case of the bat failing a Fly check. In other words... these straps can hold a lot of weight and take a lot of punishment.

Maybe you can use that as a template to homebrew a kind of masterwork tactical harness the PC wears that allows them to strap, say, up to 6 mess kits to the backpack securely. Cost: 50 GP, Hardness 1, 5 HP; no chance of breaking while under normal wear and tear?

[Anguish]

Oh. I just thought of something.

If you're sticking things inside a backpack, they'd be stowed. In my mind, stuff hanging off a backpack isn't. It's an improvised storage technique. I'd think it'd be fair for a DM to impose a fairly stiff penalty on certain skills for someone who's got a bunch of pans and stuff hanging off their backpack.

Like... Stealth, Climb, Swim for instance. Acrobatics.

Should probably impede squeezing too.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Here's the OP:

Senko wrote:

So I'm just looking advice would you treat the 40lbs as the maximum weight a backpack can hold or would that just be for things inside it and if you can make a valid argument of why something would be strapped to the outside it wont? I'm specifcally looking at the cooking kit where everything fits in the pot and weighs 16 pounds. Since my load is at 53 lbs if I can hang the pot off something I'm looking at the gear inside the pack weighing less than 40 lbs not counting bedroll, blanket, torches, handaxe, etc.

Ok, here is an image of Lidda, the iconic rogue from D&D 3x. She is a halfling rogue with Str 10. Here she is with her backpack which in several images of her is depicted as having a bedroll strapped to it, torches, some kind of flatbox or case, maybe a scroll case, and so on.

My point is: OBVIOUSLY you can strap bulky stuff to a D&D 3x backpack and still be expected to use all your rogue skills. In this way, I think we can say that strapping a cooking kit to the outside of the bag won't adversely affect your skills unless you're over your Light Load (if you, indeed, use those PF1 mechanics).

But you started off asking: would strapping like that exceed the D&D 3x weight limit of the backpack? Since that mechanic doesn't have any effect in PF1, there's no way to say definitively but realistically, as you're a stickler for realism, things NOT inside the backpack wouldn't affect the weight limit of the INSIDE of the backpack.

A cooking kit doesn't have a volume or dimensions, but a Pot, Common says it's got an 8" diameter. If that's the iron pot into which the rest of the cooking kit is fitted, chances are it COULD be stowed inside your backpack but its volume would mostly fill up your pack.

I think, like Lidda does with many things in D&D 3x, you'd likely want to secure the kit to the outside of your backpack. I think there are PLENTY of examples of this IRL from ancient and modern times, and as I and many other people have stated, if it's not INSIDE the backpack it won't affect the space/weight limit of your D&D 3x backpack.

[Senko]

Anguish wrote:

I understand Senko's desire to figure out what's fair for the playstyle they want to play, despite not sharing it myself.

Senko, I think since you're working towards realism, you need to consider the period this is supposed to be in. Older materials tended to be more... hardy... than today's in a lot of ways (though not in all). The construction of the backpack in question will be less modern and functional, but the actual components like straps will be stronger. Leather over thin, cheap nylon straps. But the actual construction methods will be primitive and poor.

High-end modern camping equipment is constructed well, and engineered. RPG equipment is constructed poorly, I'd think. So while the straps themselves might not break, the stitching is probably on par with cheap mass-produced modern stuff, not the good stuff.

That all said... I think a compromise might be to get your DM to generate a price for a masterwork backpack. One that is actually constructed with care... the pinnacle of RPG backpacks that aren't magical.

The flip side is most of this stuff is made to last compared to modern items. Shoes, clothes all were much hardier back then if you bought quality as opposed to today's planned obsolecance to bring you back to buy a replacement every few years.

[Loren Pechtel]

Observation: Hanging stuff off your pack is generally a form of bad packing and if so (and I would consider many of your examples are) it makes the pack noticeably harder to carry.

I have some light items dangling off my pack that are not an issue, but one day I hung a box of about 6 pounds off my pack. My slinging turned out to be less than ideal and the box rode lower on my pack than intended--and I would say that it was something like twice as hard to carry as it's weight would suggest.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Actually, nylon is in a lot of way better than leather. It holds up to water damage a lot better than leather and is a lot lighter. Depending on the type of nylon it can be stronger than leather. Modern backpacks are designed to be lighter are usually a lot thinner that those made or of leather. A nylon backpack of the same thickness as leather would be a lot tougher.

[Senko]

Loren Pechtel wrote:

Observation: Hanging stuff off your pack is generally a form of bad packing and if so (and I would consider many of your examples are) it makes the pack noticeably harder to carry.

I have some light items dangling off my pack that are not an issue, but one day I hung a box of about 6 pounds off my pack. My slinging turned out to be less than ideal and the box rode lower on my pack than intended--and I would say that it was something like twice as hard to carry as it's weight would suggest.

Thanks for the personal experience.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Actually, nylon is in a lot of way better than leather. It holds up to water damage a lot better than leather and is a lot lighter. Depending on the type of nylon it can be stronger than leather. Modern backpacks are designed to be lighter are usually a lot thinner that those made or of leather. A nylon backpack of the same thickness as leather would be a lot tougher.

Oh we have better materials I'm just saying they make stuff to fail now rather than making it to last.

[Mysterious Stranger]

It is not so much that modern equipment is not designed to last as it is that we treat our equipment like crap. People in those days took care of their equipment including cleaning and maintaining it. Most modern equipment no one bother to do that. A lot of time it is because the material often does not require as much care, but more often than not we treat completely ignore any maintenance.

[Anguish]

I think the answer is somewhere in between.

There's a lot of cheap product that is under-engineered, poorly assembled, and expected to fail early regardless of how you treat it.

There's a lot of high-end expensive product that is premium... designed thoughtfully and assembled with care and is expected to last a long while.

A Pathfinder backpack is 2g, which common opinion has translating to about $200. That's not a cheapie Walmart special which will tear open by the time it gets to the car, but it's also not a specialty item designed to last a lifetime.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Before we quibble about the cost and durability... Craft is an untrained skill so taking a 10 with no penalty results in succeeding at a DC 10 Craft check. A "typical" item (the example being an iron pot) can be crafted with a 10.

Taking 10 x DC 10 = 100 SP crafted/week of work. That's 10 GP/week. A backpack is 2 GP. I use 5 day work weeks, you might use 7, but in my own game that means anyone with a 10 Int can craft 1 backpack/day with standard leatherworking tools and access to the materials.

In other words, with an investment of 5 GP at the start of the game, say, 1.25 GP from each of the 4 PCs in the party, you begin the game with common artisan's tools (Craft: Leather). Any time you have 1 full day of Downtime in a settlement and 6.6 repeating SP to spend on materials, you've got a new backpack. Whether or not these devices are made of sturdy materials and dependable can easily be rendered a moot point.

Other ways to ensure your PCs' backpacks survive adventuring: Mending, Make Whole, Masterwork Transformation, and yet other spells. Heck, Prestidigitation will dry one quickly and keep it clean. 2 Cantrips, 10 minutes and 6 seconds worth of attention can conceivably keep your backpack in good repair indefinitely once you hit APL2.

The central question of the thread and the OP is whether or not putting items ON a 3x D&D backpack contribute towards the weight limit of the 3x D&D backpack, which is 40lbs in that old system. Again, PF1 doesn't have that weight limit but the OP uses it so that's the metric we're giving advice about.

[Loren Pechtel]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

It is not so much that modern equipment is not designed to last as it is that we treat our equipment like crap. People in those days took care of their equipment including cleaning and maintaining it. Most modern equipment no one bother to do that. A lot of time it is because the material often does not require as much care, but more often than not we treat completely ignore any maintenance.

While this is an issue there's also the issue of durability is a cost. Look at ultralight backpacking gear--one of the things you give up is some durability. The modern gear is a lot better than the old stuff--but often not as tough.

Also, compare backpacking gear vs apparently similar camping gear. The backpacker gear is a lot more expensive for the same capabilities--becuase it's a lot lighter.