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Hey guys,
I started to work on a new interactive map of Golarion based on previous works done (especially here).
You can find the current version deployed on Github: TO THE MAP. You can find the sources here.
All the shapes can be easily altered using the free tool QGIS. The cities are regularly exported from pathfinderwiki.com to make it even easier to contribute to the map if you want.
I hope you guys can get some use out of it and maybe one or two people want to contribute two the map.
Some current tasks:
- • use a better font & change text styles
- • improve coordinates of cities within the wiki
- • add other locations to the wiki
- • write a guide of how to contribute
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The map is currently blank, from what I can see?
Is the idea that this will be a 2e map, because the other is for 1e?
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For me it's more half blank, at least when I zoom in . Think it's just not loading properly on my device.
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May I ask what kind of devices those are? It loads correctly on my big PC but I have not yet worked on making everything compatible with mobile devices.
The idea is for this to become a 2e map. I will use sources from both but always prefer sources from 2e.
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Okay, I think I solved 99% of the problem by just hosting the font together with the map instead of using an external one.
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Two random things I noticed (have not thoroughly perused it yet). Ravounel doesn't have borders, so it looks like it's still part of Cheliax. And the capital city symbol for Cheliax is on Westcrown instead of Egorian.
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Yeah, this is clearly a 4708 map rather than a 4719 map. Besides Ravounel not being independent: 1) Vidrian, the Gravelands, and the Sarkoris Scar are still labelled Sargava, Lastwall, and the Worldwound respectively; and 2) Oprak and New Thassilon don't exist.
Ravounel should have additional settlements marked: Cypress Point (on the end of the peninsula east of Kintargo), Revousa (at the confluence of the Yolubilis and Katharevousa Rivers), Tastikka (in the eastern part of Ravounel Forest), Crookcove (on the inlet northeast of Pezzack, from Malevolence), and Sember Cove (also on the inlet northeast of Pezzack; its location is mentioned in Shimali Manux's section in Legends, and unlike Crookcove it's actually inhabited). If Crookcove is marked even though it's abandoned, Deepmar should be as well. I'm pretty sure Irim is too far east and north, it should form a roughly equilateral triangle with Kintargo and Vyre. And there should be another aquatic elf small city called Mirivenn (it's mentioned in either Turn of the Torrent or Dance of the Damned) west of Vyre Island. You may also want to mark Oakrib Inn, Summershade Quarry (on the upper Katharevousa River per Tomorrow Must Burn), the Terapassilion, and Menador Keep (in the middle of Menador Gap per Tomorrow Must Burn and The Kingargo Contract) as points of interest.
Relevant map, from Tomorrow Must Burn, is here.
Also, and this is something of a pet peeve so I don't expect it to be taken on board, but I rather like to see the states in multi-state nations (so, Varisia, the River Kingdoms, and the Mwangi Expanse) with their borders drawn in and don't understand the convention where they're left out.
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Super useful, thanks. Right now the map represents more the state of 4708 since this is what the previous projects did. I will include the changes step by step.
I have created lists of stuff to improve here, based on your suggestions. Collecting lists of things that are wrong and especially which book/page contain the relevant information is one of the biggest problems.
I agree that the map should show real countries and maybe show larger regions on the lower zoom level (e.g. Golden Road instead of Osirion).
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For reference, the second Agents of Edgewatch adventure includes a map of Vudra, and the third Blood Lords adventure has a map of Holomog. Pretty sure there's a map of Iobaria somewhere too.
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For reference, the second Agents of Edgewatch adventure includes a map of Vudra, and the third Blood Lords adventure has a map of Holomog. Pretty sure there's a map of Iobaria somewhere too.
Guns & Gears has Arcadia, too!
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Agents of Edgewatch: Sixty Feet Under has a map of Vudra (and a very nice article on the region) that would be very helpful.
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For reference, the second Agents of Edgewatch adventure includes a map of Vudra, and the third Blood Lords adventure has a map of Holomog. Pretty sure there's a map of Iobaria somewhere too.
Iobaria's gazette is in The Varnhold Vanishing, and Maiden, Mother, Crone is set there, so it has a map if a less complete one.
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For reference, the second Agents of Edgewatch adventure includes a map of Vudra, and the third Blood Lords adventure has a map of Holomog. Pretty sure there's a map of Iobaria somewhere too.Guns & Gears has Arcadia, too!
The Deadshot lands are on the map, so I assumed they had referenced the G&G map of Arcadia already.
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Arcadia is missing a few locales: Port Valen and the nearby Forest of Trials up in northern Arcadia (from Society scenarios Path of Kings and Guardian's Covenant), while the entire nation of Xopatl is featured in book 5 of the 1e Adventure Path Tyrant's Grasp with a map.
Over in Garund, all of Sargava needs to go, with several locales having been renamed after Vidrian's revolution.
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Book 2 of War for the Crown has a map of the county of Meratt in Taldor.
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Over in Garund, all of Sargava needs to go, with several locales having been renamed after Vidrian's revolution.
Do you have a source for these changes? A map in any book that shows the new status quo?
I have integrated the rest into the TODO lists.
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Over in Garund, all of Sargava needs to go, with several locales having been renamed after Vidrian's revolution.Do you have a source for these changes? A map in any book that shows the new status quo?
I have integrated the rest into the TODO lists.
The Lost Omens World Guide is the go-to for 2e Inner Sea canon, and has the current map.
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If you want more detail on Vidrian and the way the area looks post-revolution, page 275 of the (excellent) Mwangi Expanse book also has a little more detail than the LO:WG map will. There's also a broader map of the whole Mwangi Expanse region on page 8 of that book, which should be the most up-to-date source for the whole area.
Good to have some free interactive Lost Omens Golarion map stuff out there, Virenerus. ;)
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Yesterday saw a good amount of work put into detailing Kortos. Today it is Xopatl and the Saga Lands. For now I focus on on the geography and borders. I will only add locations and cities for now that already have wiki articles. Everyone can of course add more locations by just creating wiki articles and tagging their location there.
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Love this project! I keep forgetting that there's an entire bottom half of Garund that we know basically nothing about.
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Love this project! I keep forgetting that there's an entire bottom half of Garund that we know basically nothing about.
We actually know about quite a few nations, but most of them have remarkably little detail: iruxi dino-empire Droon, celestial matriarchy Holomog, the three Bekyar city-states of Kaz’ulu, amurrun homeland Murraseth, the anadi land of Nurvatcha, azata-worshiping Dehrukani, Kelish Tirakawhan, Vudran Tirakawhan, and airship-building Eihlona.
Things broadly seem to be at the wilder extreme of Ancestries, technology, and planar influence, striking a vision of Southern Garund that’s similar to the Impossible Lands, but not quite so militant. I’d love to see more!
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Everyone can of course add more locations by just creating wiki articles and tagging their location there.Can we? I thought editing the wiki was solely staff's bailiwick.
They've even got a tutorial on the wiki for how to begin editing. From the looks of things, there are only a handful of people actively editing, and there's definitely a lot of spots in the wiki that are bereft of PF2-era updates, so maybe we should try and get it updated!
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Love this project! I keep forgetting that there's an entire bottom half of Garund that we know basically nothing about.We actually know about quite a few nations, but most of them have remarkably little detail: iruxi dino-empire Droon, celestial matriarchy Holomog, the three Bekyar city-states of Kaz’ulu, amurrun homeland Murraseth, the anadi land of Nurvatcha, azata-worshiping Dehrukani, Kelish Tirakawhan, Vudran Tirakawhan, and airship-building Eihlona.
Things broadly seem to be at the wilder extreme of Ancestries, technology, and planar influence, striking a vision of Southern Garund that’s similar to the Impossible Lands, but not quite so militant. I’d love to see more!
Oh nice! Yeah I'd love to see more too. Would love to see these vaguely on the map too. Even without specific towns or borders, getting more region labels for lower Garund and Casmoroon (sp?) would hopefully be some low-hanging fruit that would add a lot to the zoomed out map.
EDIT: And as suggested, I added a wiki page for a city in Qadira.
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They've even got a tutorial on the wiki for how to begin editing. From the looks of things, there are only a handful of people actively editing, and there's definitely a lot of spots in the wiki that are bereft of PF2-era updates, so maybe we should try and get it updated!Everyone can of course add more locations by just creating wiki articles and tagging their location there.Can we? I thought editing the wiki was solely staff's bailiwick.
Well, then. I've begun filling out the Ravounel navigation box. It should have all the known extant settlements (Kintargo, Acisazi, Cypress Point, Sember Cove, Tastikka, Vyre, Whiterock) for mapping purposes.
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Is there a way to do measurements between separate points on the map?
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Right now there is no easy way to do it in the map itself. This would be great feature though. I will try to add this soon.
Since Golarion has the same shape as earth you can use a lat/long distance calculator like https://www.omnicalculator.com/other/latitude-longitude-distance
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Wow, this map is looking really good!
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Sargava and the Worldwound are still hanging around here.
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Sargava and the Worldwound are still hanging around here.
And Vudra, Holomog, Oprak, and Xopatl, and the Inner Sea meta-regions, and many of the small islands on the Steaming Sea, and some rudimentary bathymetry (what look to be continental shelves), got added, while the states of Varisia, the River Kingdoms, and the Mwangi Expanse did not. Nor was Lastwall renamed. Small-group or individual projects progress unevenly.
That said, zooming into "Sargava," many of the settlement name changes appear to have been made, including Eleder to Anthusis and Kalabuto to Umnyango (which is on the wrong side of the frontier and the river; it ought to be on the west bank rather than the east, the GIS data has a number of oddities like this). So yeah, the country name remaining the same is an odd choice.
Miscellaneous observations:
I do like that Qadira is named Kelesh on broader zoom levels. But its eastern frontier ought not to be the thick gray state border, but the thin or dashed-gray border of Holomog or Vudra to denote its status as a satrap.
I'm not sure why Ravounel's and Nidal's borders got shifted north to the fall line rather than the crest of the Menador Mountains (like Molthune's; Nidal's border follows on from Molthune's, and Ravounel's from Nidal's, on most of the published maps) - what's the explanation for this decision?
Cheliax's border with Isger should also follow the River Keld to its source before turning east rather than turning east south of Haugin's Ear like it does now.
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Sargava and the Worldwound are still hanging around here.
I actually already have a merge request (AKA, I did the work, have it up as a proposal, and now a wiki admin has to approve and merge it) up and ready to go!
Definitely a lot of small work has been done. I volunteered to help a lot, so most of the new settlements and points of interest successfully showing up on the map has been me.
I've mainly been doing that on existing pages, so if people want to help, would really appreciate people going through the countries and adding new pages for any of the missing (usually red, dead links in the country navboxes) settlements and points of interest!
All in all, it's just a matter of what me and the wiki admin have been focusing on. I know they've been doing subtle changes that are hard to appreciate but really cool, like adding more details to the coast lines. It's just the two of us on actual map changes, while anyone can make wiki changes for the project to scoop up at regular intervals.
@zimmerwald: As far as border things: I've started to become very annoyed at borders, and am deciding on the best coarse of action. Almost every single map I look at has slightly different borders, so it becomes a question of which one to use.
A great example: Open up your copy of the World Guide to page 11 for the big map of the Inner Sea region. Look at the Saga Lands, particularly its eastern border.
Great, awesome, now turn to page 109, and look at the eastern border of the Saga Lands here. Wild variations.
Now turn to page 37 so compare most of that eastern border with their neighbor, the Eye of Dread. Harder to appreciate unless you use a photo-editing app to overlap them, but that border is **also different**.
AND THEN
The World Guide came with a huge Lost Omens Poster Map, **where the borders are also independently different**.
Help, lol.
Some are definitely closer to others, but I am baffled as to how bad this is within just the same product.
All of that is to say: I promise you all of these borders came from *somewhere*. It's just....weird, lol.
EDIT: My favorite are definitely the maps that have the capital Vigil outside of the actual borders of the Gravelands. Unless the actual borders were stated to shrink after Tyrant's Grasp?
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@zimmerwald: As far as border things: I've started to become very annoyed at borders, and am deciding on the best coarse of action. Almost every single map I look at has slightly different borders, so it becomes a question of which one to use.
A great example: Open up your copy of the World Guide to page 11 for the big map of the Inner Sea region. Look at the Saga Lands, particularly its eastern border.
Great, awesome, now turn to page 109, and look at the eastern border of the Saga Lands here. Wild variations.
Now turn to page 37 so compare most of that eastern border with their neighbor, the Eye of Dread. Harder to appreciate unless you use a photo-editing app to overlap them, but that border is **also different**.
AND THEN
The World Guide came with a huge Lost Omens Poster Map, **where the borders are also independently different**.
Help, lol.
My first instinct would be to conform the borders to the nearest relevant natural features (crests of mountain ranges, channels of rivers, edges of forests, etc.). But there are some problems with this canon of interpretation - things are rarely so neat and tidy in reality (rivers and forests in particular change while borders remain fixed where they once flowed/stood), the crests of mountain ranges aren't actually shown on the map (the median of the highlands could be a passable substitute, but what of mountains that rise steeply on one side and peter out slowly on the other?), and there are occasionally no relevant natural features (e.g., the frontier between Ravounel and Nidal, which bisects the North Plains between Mount Emihym and the sea, only briefly following a natural feature in the inlet from the sea).
Another approach might be to use the most appealing frontier in each case, but this is obviously flawed by the lack of a consistent principle at play, and by each person's aesthetic appeal necessarily being different.
The best approach might be to mark them all, as disputed frontiers where they fall between states, or as the difference between claimed and actual control where they fall between states on the one hand and non-state territory on the other.
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There's an island south-southeast of Hermea and west-northwest of Pezzack (around lat/long 41.65200939687105, -30.6403935042826) that isn't supposed to exist. It was a letter "e" in a legend/label on one of the published maps and got misinterpreted as an island.
Now I want to hear the story of E. Stir Island . . . .
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Thanks, Garrett! Definitely worthwhile stuff to keep in mind.
Also FWIW to everyone else, there are multiple updates coming (full list can be seen here), it'll just be a bit because the main wiki admin in charge of approving those changes is on a much-deserved vacation.
But there are things that more people can help with besides direct map things in the meantime.
For any location on the map, we don't have a latlong to put in without a corresponding wiki page, so mainly some simple, stock pages need to be made for missing locations (obviously even better if people want to add more info, but at least something for map locations would be great). If people can help make those pages, I can come in and follow-up with the proper latlongs since I have the map images from the books projected appropriately on to the map.
Pages/locations needed sorted by source book:
Qadira, Jewel of the East
The page for the city of Ayesh is a great example. Look at the Qadira navbox at the bottom of the page for all the missing settlements and points of interest (POIs).
Druma, Profit and Prophecy
Example page: Twingate. Same basic deal. Always check the navboxes at the bottom of the page for all those red, dead links for what pages are missing.
Nidal, Land of Shadows
Example page: Albatross.
Those are the ones I currently know of. I know Minkai could use some work too.
If anyone else knows of a place where we have a map in a source book, but a lot of the locations that map shows are missing from the current site, please post the source book and page where that map is.
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Distant Shores says Holomog nearly went to war with Qadira over "the neighboring island of Tirakawhan," yet the only labeled island on the map of Holomog in Blood Lords #3 is the Holoma province of Aruntarr. There's a couple of smaller islands much closer to the coast that go unlabeled, and I doubt any of them are a Qadiran colony (which goes entirely unmentioned in the gazetteer). I'm struggling to find an appropriate island for Tirakawhan to be with Aruntarr off the table.
I turn to the cartography nerds - where's your best guess for Tirakawhan's location?
EDIT: Is it one of these two? They're the only real candidates for "neighboring islands," but that's quite a journey for any Qadiran colonists to have made! They're so much closer to the rest of Casmaron and Vudra than their actual place of origin, it's strange that folks didn't just sail west across the Obari from that continent in the first place!
EDIT 2: I'm unfamiliar with this kind of tech - what would be needed for it to display the Arcadian microregions? Guns & Gears gives us placements for the labels, at least, and also provides placements for Iscadero Island, Port Valen, and Segada.
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Looking at Rob McCaleb's maps of Golarion, where Holomog would be there's a larger offshore island a bit to the south, close enough that being called “neighbouring” isn't much of an exaggeration, and it's slightly closer to the Kelesh mainland near Vudra. I would assume that's Tirakawhan, barring a statement by a Paizo employee or an appearance in canon material.
Edit: whoops, you already arrived at the same conclusion!
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Solid points on Tirakawhan! I think for this project the preference is if we know more concretely which island it is. I don't know where Blords #6 goes, but we'll see if it includes another higher-level map.
@keftiu: It requires using a software called QGIS to edit the maps and submitting a pull request (PR) to the Github repo. FWIW, doing the subregions of many areas is on our tracked list of tasks. As mentioned before, for those types of changes, the admin in charge is on a much-deserved vacation for a while. In the mean time, wiki changes still get scooped up every now and then and that would definitely be helpful.
Speaking of the wiki, I finished projecting a couple maps of the Lands of the Linnorn Kings and Irrisen from their respective 1e campaign setting books for the purposes of placing every location I could find, so those two countries have far more locations populated on the map!
Planning to double check Nirmathas and Molthune for locations next since we have those great maps from Land of Conflict. Druma also has a great map, though that'll be more work since so many of those pages on the wiki are missing, so need to be created.
EDIT: Oh, as far as figuring out islands, I don't think we know where exactly Bhopan is, do we? Also pretty sure we don't know where exactly the entirety of the islands from Ruins of Azlant are?
In good news, we do know which one Danger Island is, so giving that island more detailed geometry is on the list.
EDIT 2: I just updated the Tirakawhan wiki page to reflect the detective work on estimating which island it probably is, so we at least have that info preserved.
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Looking at Rob McCaleb's maps of Golarion, where Holomog would be there's a larger offshore island a bit to the south, close enough that being called “neighbouring” isn't much of an exaggeration, and it's slightly closer to the Kelesh mainland near Vudra. I would assume that's Tirakawhan, barring a statement by a Paizo employee or an appearance in canon material.
Edit: whoops, you already arrived at the same conclusion!
That first link I initially misread as "Rand McNally's maps of Golarion".
Second link just gives me a blank screen.
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Looking at Rob McCaleb's maps of Golarion, where Holomog would be there's a larger offshore island a bit to the south, close enough that being called “neighbouring” isn't much of an exaggeration, and it's slightly closer to the Kelesh mainland near Vudra. I would assume that's Tirakawhan, barring a statement by a Paizo employee or an appearance in canon material.
Edit: whoops, you already arrived at the same conclusion!
That first link I initially misread as "Rand McNally's maps of Golarion".
Second link just gives me a blank screen.
Hm, does this link work a bit better? And I actually grew the southern border a little too far north, it should actually be closer to "Tirakawhan" than it is.
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Tried both Firefox and Safari. First link is different with the browsers -- in Firefox it gives me a blank page, and in Safari it wants to save a *.png.xml file, which when opened gives me the error message "AccessDeniedAccess denied.Anonymous caller does not have storage.objects.get access to the Google Cloud Storage object. Permission 'storage.objects.get' denied on resource (or it may not exist)." The message is apparently embedded in the XML file. The second link gives me a blank page in both, and if I save it it gives me a 0 byte file.
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Hm, does this link work a bit better? And I actually grew the southern border a little too far north, it should actually be closer to "Tirakawhan" than it is.Looking at Rob McCaleb's maps of Golarion, where Holomog would be there's a larger offshore island a bit to the south, close enough that being called “neighbouring” isn't much of an exaggeration, and it's slightly closer to the Kelesh mainland near Vudra. I would assume that's Tirakawhan, barring a statement by a Paizo employee or an appearance in canon material.
Edit: whoops, you already arrived at the same conclusion!
That first link I initially misread as "Rand McNally's maps of Golarion".
Second link just gives me a blank screen.
The first try opened a blank tab for me, but this new try works for me.
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Tried both Firefox and Safari. First link is different with the browsers -- in Firefox it gives me a blank page, and in Safari it wants to save a *.png.xml file, which when opened gives me the error message "AccessDeniedAccess denied.Anonymous caller does not have storage.objects.get access to the Google Cloud Storage object. Permission 'storage.objects.get' denied on resource (or it may not exist)." The message is apparently embedded in the XML file. The second link gives me a blank page in both, and if I save it it gives me a 0 byte file.
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Alright, more latlongs added to locations throughout Nirmathas, Molthune, and Druma that'll likely show up sometime this week when the next time script runs to crawl the wiki for those.
Also, I thought I'd look at future books that we have descriptions for and speculate on what bigger maps we might be getting that will be helpful to integrate:
* Gatewalker 2 mentions a gazetteer on the region around the Lake of Mists and Veils. Hell yes, hope it comes with a solid chunk of Iobaria to confirm it's weird shape since our only other map is from the original Kingmaker. Hopefully we'll see if there's anything north of it too.
* Not sure what region(s) we might get for Firebrands like we got for Knights of Lastwall, if any, but that would be cool.
* I hope Highhelm comes with the most current map of the whole Five Kings Mountains country, even if it doesn't go into more detail compared to the capital city.
* I wonder if The Enmity Cycle will come with a new map of Thuvia?
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Also, I thought I'd look at future books that we have descriptions for and speculate on what bigger maps we might be getting that will be helpful to integrate:
Stolen Fate is supposedly going to many continents, so I'm exciting for new details sneaking in from all over!
* Not sure what region(s) we might get for Firebrands like we got for Knights of Lastwall, if any, but that would be cool.
I believe Luis's AMA mentioned the book at least going to the High Seas and Old Cheliax, which both make sense - the Firebrands love being pirates, and Ravounel's revolution was part of their faction's creation. Sargava's rebels were another major piece of things, so the Mwangi Expanse might get some attention?
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Ooh, my PRs got surprise approvals so a bunch of changes are in the map now! All the various regions should have their 2E names now, the Scar is on the map, various bodies of water should all have labels, and I updated the colors of everything to be a little more saturated.