So... where's the new mech support?

[JiCi]

We get new starships, vehicles and power armors once in a while, but ever since Tech Revolution, we haven't gotten new frames, weapons and such.

I am personally still waiting for the following:
- a way to pilot Gargantuan and Colossal mechs with one pilot
- frames with climb, burrow and/or hover speed (at least expanded from the hoverpad)
- frames based on different cultures, like starships; dude, pretty sure, dead creatures could be turned into mechs
- more weapons, especially for more damage types
- more examples, so you don't have a huge gap
- more upgrades
- feats, skills and/or features that allow class features to be channelled through mechs, such as spells and a solarian weapon
- a way to transform a mech into a Tiny starship, and vice-versa

So yeah, I thought these rules would be explored a bit more as time went on :S

[TRDG]

One would assume in the new Mech AP (teased but not officially announced yet) and perhaps in the module To Defy a Dragon out mid November of this year.

I'd just be happy with Roll20 fixing their Mech sheets so they can actually be used in combat myself!!!

1 Pilot Col Gigan Mechs would quite break the system as if the whole party has one each....... Well only so many things they can realistically fight against, I'd suggest homebrew if thats your thing.

Tom

[JiCi]

TRDG wrote:

1 Pilot Col Gigan Mechs would quite break the system as if the whole party has one each....... Well only so many things they can realistically fight against, I'd suggest homebrew if thats your thing.

What if it's a drone or an AI that acts as the mandatory 2nd operator? or what if your co-pilot dies from an impact and you have to manage alone, like in Pacific Rim ^^; ?

[Milo v3]

We haven't really gotten much space to even have mech support to begin with. There's only been 1 mechanics focused book since tech revolution, and it was magic focused.

[JiCi]

Milo v3 wrote:

We haven't really gotten much space to even have mech support to begin with. There's only been 1 mechanics focused book since tech revolution, and it was magic focused.

At this point, it's gonna go in the same direction as PF's Mythic rules...

[Driftbourne]

They must have something planned for Mechs next year there's a new preorder for a new giant flip map that sounds like a battlefield for Mechs.
says "biggest battlefields we’ve ever published! 30" × 46" "

Enormous Battlefield.

[keftiu]

JiCi wrote:

Milo v3 wrote:

We haven't really gotten much space to even have mech support to begin with. There's only been 1 mechanics focused book since tech revolution, and it was magic focused.

At this point, it's gonna go in the same direction as PF's Mythic rules...

Mythic Adventures, Mythic Origins, Mythic Realms, and an entire 6-volume Adventure Path (Wrath of the Righteous) is hardly being neglected. How much support can one optional subsystem get?

[JiCi]

keftiu wrote:

JiCi wrote:

Milo v3 wrote:

We haven't really gotten much space to even have mech support to begin with. There's only been 1 mechanics focused book since tech revolution, and it was magic focused.

At this point, it's gonna go in the same direction as PF's Mythic rules...

Mythic Adventures, Mythic Origins, Mythic Realms, and an entire 6-volume Adventure Path (Wrath of the Righteous) is hardly being neglected. How much support can one optional subsystem get?

Then please tell me where those rules were in the Advanced Class Guide, Occult Adventures, Ultimate Intrigue, Horror Adventures, Ultimate Wilderness and Planar Adventures then.

The only times Mythic rules were presented after the main book were in Bestiaries.

I'd like to point out that a few Unchained rules were later expanded with later books, but Mythic were kept to the main book.

[Driftbourne]

AS TRDG mentioned To Defy a Dragon comes out November 16th It has four new one-of-a-kind mechs plus new starmetal mech options.

I wouldn't expect much more for mechs until the year of the Drift Crisis is over.

[Yakman]

also... there were TONS of mecha options in Tech Revolution!

[Thurston Hillman]

To Defy the Dragon has a bit of new player-facing mech content, as well as a whole bunch of mech-based encounters. As mentioned above, there's a "Mech AP" in the works right now that's going to focus on mechs and provide some new content for players as well. We haven't announced anything beyond that in terms of mech-specific content, but it should be noted that our ability to do more mech-based content is really going to depend on how well these mech-themed products do. So _please_ show support by picking up these Mech products when they get released, because that gives us a solid metric to go "oh, people are willing to spend money on this content!" and thus allows us to keep pursuing it.

That being said, I know the delay between Tech Rev and these products is a bit much. In the future, I'm trying to do tie-in products closer to the release of associated products so that we'll be able to better gauge fan reactions and interest levels in new options.

Moving beyond that semi-corporate answer... mechs are my favorite developing part of the setting and game right now. I included a bunch of mech combat in my home campaign, and it was eye opening in how fluid the system was and how the players were immediately able to get into the roles. I think there's a TON of room to develop them, and it's something I'd love to explore more with new player options!

[Yakman]

Thurston Hillman wrote:

To Defy the Dragon has a bit of new player-facing mech content, as well as a whole bunch of mech-based encounters. As mentioned above, there's a "Mech AP" in the works right now that's going to focus on mechs and provide some new content for players as well. We haven't announced anything beyond that in terms of mech-specific content, but it should be noted that our ability to do more mech-based content is really going to depend on how well these mech-themed products do. So _please_ show support by picking up these Mech products when they get released, because that gives us a solid metric to go "oh, people are willing to spend money on this content!" and thus allows us to keep pursuing it.

That being said, I know the delay between Tech Rev and these products is a bit much. In the future, I'm trying to do tie-in products closer to the release of associated products so that we'll be able to better gauge fan reactions and interest levels in new options.

Moving beyond that semi-corporate answer... mechs are my favorite developing part of the setting and game right now. I included a bunch of mech combat in my home campaign, and it was eye opening in how fluid the system was and how the players were immediately able to get into the roles. I think there's a TON of room to develop them, and it's something I'd love to explore more with new player options!

I am going to add mecha stuff into Attack of the Swarm. The guys were pretty pumped when I broached the topic.

[JiCi]

Yakman wrote:

also... there were TONS of mecha options in Tech Revolution!

Yet we never got new frames, weapons and systems alongside new starships and vehicles in later books.

[Yakman]

JiCi wrote:

Yakman wrote:

also... there were TONS of mecha options in Tech Revolution!

Yet we never got new frames, weapons and systems alongside new starships and vehicles in later books.

there's a mecha AP in the works.

patience.

[JiCi]

Yakman wrote:

JiCi wrote:

Yakman wrote:

also... there were TONS of mecha options in Tech Revolution!

Yet we never got new frames, weapons and systems alongside new starships and vehicles in later books.

there's a mecha AP in the works.

patience.

I get that APs often expand rules, but I have seen other rules NOT being expanded that much after its introduction.

In Pathfinder, like I explained, they introduced the Mythic rules, but never expanded in later core books, such as new paths, feats and abilities related to horror, intrigue or wilderness. By comparison, a lot of Unchained rules were expanded later on, yet THOSE are supposed to be alternate rulesets.

I'm sorry, but... were Mechs NOT wanted by the developpers or something? By the looks of it, those rules were added to appease loud fans, when it gets really questionable about HATING giant robots.

[Rysky the Dark Solarion]

1) Starfinder has a much lower output than Pathfinder.

2) Mythic was not well received, as opposed to Unchained, which was well received and fixed a lot of issues with the system in the eyes of not only the players but the designers having to work with htose rules as well.

3) If they hated the rules as you claim, they wouldn't be putting out any support for them, when we're getting an adventure.

4) Why are you just ignoring Thursty's post right above yours?

[Thurston Hillman]

Trust me, the devs don't hate mechs. Just because the books that follow mechs don't immediately contain MORE mechs, doesn't mean we hate it. Similarly, remember that when our new mech content (like Defy the Dragon) does come out, the best chance of getting more mech content is to support it!

But yeah, more mech stuff on the way. The team is very PRO-MECH. It's just that there's a delay with this kind of content. Books have delays between them, because we need to get a sense of how stuff is received and how to best incorporate it.

[JiCi]

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

1) Starfinder has a much lower output than Pathfinder.

Huh...

Quote:

2) Mythic was not well received, as opposed to Unchained, which was well received and fixed a lot of issues with the system in the eyes of not only the players but the designers having to work with htose rules as well.

I was not aware of that, because the later Bestiaries featured mythical monsters.

Quote:

3) If they hated the rules as you claim, they wouldn't be putting out any support for them, when we're getting an adventure.

Really depends on your budget though... Would you want to purchase an AP just for extra rules, or would you rather purchase a core book with those extra rules?

Quote:

4) Why are you just ignoring Thursty's post right above yours?

More "blatantly missing/scrolling passed it" than "ignoring" ^^;

Thurston Hillman wrote:

Trust me, the devs don't hate mechs. Just because the books that follow mechs don't immediately contain MORE mechs, doesn't mean we hate it. Similarly, remember that when our new mech content (like Defy the Dragon) does come out, the best chance of getting more mech content is to support it!

But yeah, more mech stuff on the way. The team is very PRO-MECH. It's just that there's a delay with this kind of content. Books have delays between them, because we need to get a sense of how stuff is received and how to best incorporate it.

I'll cross my fingers then ^_^

[Rysky the Dark Solarion]

JiCi wrote:

I was not aware of that, because the later Bestiaries featured mythical monsters.

Yes they still used it a handful of times for demigods and the like, which is a small fraction of all content. And even less when you factor in them actually seeing use.

Unchained saw a lot more use, since it supplanted 3 classes that continued to build on.

JiCi wrote:

Really depends on your budget though... Would you want to purchase an AP just for extra rules, or would you rather purchase a core book with those extra rules?

1) this had nothing to do with what you just said.

[JiCi]

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

JiCi wrote:

Really depends on your budget though... Would you want to purchase an AP just for extra rules, or would you rather purchase a core book with those extra rules?

1) this had nothing to do with what you just said.

Let me rephrase that: while it's good to get APs with mech rules, it would have been nicer to get more in later core books, to avoid making it look like the mechs were a one-shot thing, because mechs should be as "equally supported" as vehicles and starships in those.

[Davor Firetusk]

There have always been delays in expanding new rules after a product release. Unless there is coordination at launch to share the rules broadly across multiple products, the authors on future products need to wait for a book to actually be published and have time to digest the new rules before they can turn around and use them to expand on. For some products like scenarios the lead time hasn't generally been as big (a few months), but for books writing begins in the neighborhood of a year before. Look at the evolutionist playtest for a sense of how far in advance. Then factor in taking some time post release to judge if the rules are popular enough to drive more it can take a very long time, and a big reason I prefer to have a slower release schedule and hope the game system has a longer shelf life.

[Driftbourne]

JiCi wrote:

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

JiCi wrote:

Really depends on your budget though... Would you want to purchase an AP just for extra rules, or would you rather purchase a core book with those extra rules?

1) this had nothing to do with what you just said.

Let me rephrase that: while it's good to get APs with mech rules, it would have been nicer to get more in later core books, to avoid making it look like the mechs were a one-shot thing, because mechs should be as "equally supported" as vehicles and starships in those.

There have only been two hardcover rules books since Tech Revolution. Galactic Magic And drift crisis. it's extremely rare for Psizo to publish two Starfinder books covering the same subject back-to-back. We already know what the next two books are. I expect after those two, it would be a ripe time for another tech-oriented book. My guess is, the next chance we might see a new tech book would be in late 2023.

[Rysky the Dark Solarion]

I Meant to type 2) Yes, but oh well.

JiCi wrote:

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

JiCi wrote:

Really depends on your budget though... Would you want to purchase an AP just for extra rules, or would you rather purchase a core book with those extra rules?

1) this had nothing to do with what you just said.

Let me rephrase that: while it's good to get APs with mech rules, it would have been nicer to get more in later core books, to avoid making it look like the mechs were a one-shot thing, because mechs should be as "equally supported" as vehicles and starships in those.

That doesn't make any sense.

You're getting it an adventures, where all SF gets it support after it's published. And as Driftbourne pointed out there's only been 2 books since.

[Metaphysician]

I mean. . . mecha are not just an optional rule, but they are a thing that wouldn't even make sense in every campaign in the first place. Why would you expect them to receive heavy support, compared to rules covering stuff that would logically fit into any and every game?

[JiCi]

Because I feel like mechas... should have been added instead of power armors, which those to me feel like variant heavy armors.

[Leon Aquilla]

Mechs break the balance so hard that they have no credit cost and Tech Revolution basically says "up the CR of anything you throw at them by 2". Why would you consider that a core feature?

[Metaphysician]

While I do agree that Powered Armor in the corebook has a bunch of practicality problems, I don't think swapping it out for mecha would improve things. Mecha have the same "These are not usable for everyday wear" issues that Powered Armor do, only they also are much more complex, requiring as much added effort as building a second character. You would pretty much have to build all your adventures around two different play scales, Mecha and Dismounted, and chargen would be twice the hassle for the players.

While I *like* Xenogears, I'm pretty sure most game groups would not want to have to deal with the added complexity, and in practice you'd get tons of games going "Just ignore the mecha rules, we won't use them". Which, in this scenario, would mean game groups gaining no usefulness out of a sizable chunk of the *core rules*, because its better to turn a dozen or more pages into a wasted chapter then to deal with the hassle. That's not great, especially when people already are side eyeing the starship chapter on similar grounds.

( So what would I do, in my hypothetical perfect world? One, I'd combine together Heavy and Powered Armor into one category, since thematically most of the heavy armor is what we would call powered armor IRL anyway. Two, I'd rework the starship and mecha rules so that they are effectively the *same* rules, operating on the same scale. Mecha would effectively be "starship combat on the ground", at least for when mecha don't have flight capacity. That way, mecha might still be a distinct play style, but at least its not a third distinct playstyle. )