This spell, along with Beast Shape, has caused numerous discussions over the years among players as to whether the target of the spell actually changes into a "beast" or into a "fey creature" or just gets things like swim speed, climb speed, etc.
Not in Pathfinder it hasn't. Maybe among people who don't read the rules, but those spells are very clear on what they do.
As a druid, if I were to cast Fey Form II on myself, would I be able to look through the various large-sized fey creatures and then turn into one for X minutes, or not?
There is no rules on how the knowledge of spells works. Unlike Wild Shape, which says says "The form chosen must be that of an animal with which the druid is familiar.", the polymorph spells have no such limitation. Since nothing says you need to learn additional stuff abotu a spell you know, the default would be that you can pick anything qualifying, but of course the GM could say otherwise.
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1) The Polymorph spells DON'T change the target into another kind of creature. You never get the creature type. You stay a human/elf/dwarf/whatever. You only take the shape of the creature and some ability.
Polymorph Subschool
You assume the form of a Small or Medium creature of the fey type.2)
Fey Form I
Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)
You can take the shape of any specific fey of which you own a piece that falls within the size limits of the spell.
The pieces don't have a specific price, as pricing every piece of fey for every printed creature is a colossal core, but it doesn't mean that every Spell Component Pouch has a piece of every possible fey, so your GM has the final say on what form you can assume and he can ask you to specify how you have gathered the pieces.
Probably a few hairs from a Satyr will cost a few copper pieces in any area where they are common. A piece of a CR 14 Ankou will cost way more and will be harder to find (unless you have killed one of them).
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So, I'm not sure that I got an answer. I want to cast Fey Form II and become a Norn, a large, CR18 fey creature, for my allotted 11 minutes.
Do I "become" a Norn and have its stat block, or am I dreaming?
No. You become a Drow in a "Norn costume".
- You maintain your BAB.- You maintain your saves, but they are modified by your new stats.
- Your stat are modified, you get a "+4 size bonus to your Strength and Constitution scores and take a –2 penalty to your Dexterity score."
If your initial Strength is 14, Constitution 12, and Dexterity 14, they become Strength 18, Constitution 16, and Dexterity 12, not the Strength 25, Constitution 30, and Dexterity 14 of the Norn.
- Your HDs don't change.
- Fated, Shears, Shift Fate, and Snip Thread aren't in the list of abilities you get, so you get none of them.
- Energy drain isn't in the list, too (but I could have missed it), so you don't get it too.
- As you don't get Shears, you don't get the extra attack from the speed effect of the weapon.
Essentially, you receive very little. A form with several special abilities you can access is better.
I'm 744 years old, a druid, a drow noble
He is a mythic character? The maximum age for elves is 350 + 4d% years, and drows are elves. A high-level druid will avoid the age penalties, but, even rolling four times 100 you will live at most another 6 years if you aren't immortal for some other effect.
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So, I'm not sure that I got an answer. I want to cast Fey Form II and become a Norn, a large, CR18 fey creature, for my allotted 11 minutes.
Do I "become" a Norn and have its stat block, or am I dreaming?
EDIT: Oh. The component. Hmm. That makes it a LOT tougher. I'm 744 years old, a druid, a drow noble, but not sure I've run across a lot of fey.
You do not become a Norn.
You have a base speed of 40, all-around vision, low-light vision, you are large, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength and Constitution scores and take a –2 penalty to your Dexterity score. Everything else is the same as before you cast the spell.
As far as the component: it's up to your GM.
Material (M): A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don’t bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.
The fey form material doesn't have a cost but some GMs may restrict certain very specific rare materials (like a piece of Norn skin) for roleplaying and believability reasons.
So, I'm not sure that I got an answer. I want to cast Fey Form II and become a Norn, a large, CR18 fey creature, for my allotted 11 minutes.
Do I "become" a Norn and have its stat block, or am I dreaming?
EDIT: Oh. The component. Hmm. That makes it a LOT tougher. I'm 744 years old, a druid, a drow noble, but not sure I've run across a lot of fey.
You do not become a Norn.
You have a base speed of 40, all-around vision, low-light vision, you are large, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength and Constitution scores and take a –2 penalty to your Dexterity score. Everything else is the same as before you cast the spell.
As far as the component: it's up to your GM.
Material (M): A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don’t bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.The fey form material doesn't have a cost but some GMs may restrict certain very specific rare materials (like a piece of Norn skin) for roleplaying and believability reasons.
note that you also might lose some racial abilities that depend on your form. like the drow dark vision and light blindness. read up on the polymorph school effects.
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Yeah, polymorph spells like this grant you a +10 bonus on Disguise checks and the natural attacks of the form (per the base Polymorph rules) plus only what the spell specifically lists:...
Tiny Fey: If you assume this form, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Dexterity score and take a –2 penalty to your Strength score.
Large Fey: If you assume this form, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength and Constitution scores and take a –2 penalty to your Dexterity score.
If the creature you are turning into doesn't have an ability, the spell won't give it to you.
If the creature has a ability listed in the spell at a different strength (like Fly speed 120 or Fly speed 60), you get the weaker version (the spell is capped, and you'll never get something stronger than the base creature got).For everything else (BAB, Saves, Skills, Spells, etc.), you use your own stats (after adjustments from the spell, of course).
Historically speaking, Polymorph spells have always been problematic (in no small part because every time the game invented a tougher creature to throw at the party, the party polymorphers gained a powerful new option), so they've been consistently nerfed from edition to edition...
Do I "become" a Norn and have its stat block, or am I dreaming?
Here are the Pathfinder Polymorph rules. Please read them.
The pieces don't have a specific price, as pricing every piece of fey for every printed creature is a colossal core, but it doesn't mean that every Spell Component Pouch has a piece of every possible fey
This is objectively and indubiously wrong, and you should stop spreading lies. RAW, every single component of every single creature for which there is a polymorph spell is in every single spell component pouch. RAI too, as the rules outright tell you "Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch." CRB pg. 213
Anything else is a change from the rules, and considering how easy it is to remove material spell components, and how abilities like Wild Shape don't have components by default, that's an ill-thought of and crude patch that only displays a GM's ineptitude and lack of honesty.
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Do I "become" a Norn and have its stat block, or am I dreaming?Here are the Pathfinder Polymorph rules. Please read them.
The pieces don't have a specific price, as pricing every piece of fey for every printed creature is a colossal core, but it doesn't mean that every Spell Component Pouch has a piece of every possible feyThis is objectively and indubiously wrong, and you should stop spreading lies. RAW, every single component of every single creature for which there is a polymorph spell is in every single spell component pouch. RAI too, as the rules outright tell you "Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch." CRB pg. 213
Anything else is a change from the rules, and considering how easy it is to remove material spell components, and how abilities like Wild Shape don't have components by default, that's an ill-thought of and crude patch that only displays a GM's ineptitude and lack of honesty.
Spell Component Pouch: A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.
"Is assumed to have" isn't the same as "has".
"Is assumed" implies that what the rules say is a generalization, not an absolute statement as some people like to make it.There is nothing dishonest in limiting what a pouch contains to a reasonable quantity of material.
Do you really think that in a non-magical pouch weighting 2 lbs. there will be an unlimited quantity of material, including pieces of several hundred creatures and the components to cast the same spell hundreds of times?
Hideous laughter: "tiny fruit tarts and a feather". I can stave hunger with those, as my spell component pouch has an unlimited quantity of them? Or they are Schroedinger fruit tarts that exist only when I cast a spell?
A Wild Hunt Monarch is a CR 19 medium fey, Fey Form I is a 3rd level spell for a druid. Does every 5th-level druid have several pieces of a CR 19 creature?
it becomes even more ludicrous when the player insist that the spell pouch he just bought for a few gold pieces at the local market have pieces of unique cr +25 monsters such as the green man ("what? it's a medium plant monster! i can turn into one of those")
"The following lists summarize the new spells presented in this book, arranged by class and level. A superscript “F” or “M” appearing at the end of the spell’s name in the spell list denotes a focus or material component not normally included in a spell component pouch." UW pg. 222
"Fey Form I: Assume the form of a Small or Medium fey creature." UW pg. 223
There is no (superscript) M at the end of the spell's name, and therefore, it is not a spell with a material component not normally included in a spell component pouch. Q.E.D.
"The advantage of spells that don’t require material components is they don’t require a spell component pouch (and in the rare circumstance in which if you’re grappled, you needn’t already have your material components in hand to cast the spell). Most material components are part of a spell for flavor rather than to satisfy rules. The guano and sulfur material components of fireball are there because early gunpowder (black powder) was made from guano and sulfur. The fur and glass rod material components of lightning bolt come from the ability to create a buildup of static electricity by rubbing fur against a glass rod. The game could present those spells without material components at all, and it would have a negligible effect on how the game plays (as proven by the “it has whatever I need” spell component pouch, and the sorcerer class getting Eschew Materials as a bonus feat)—they’re just in the spell for fun. Balance your spell assuming it has no material components or free material components, and then add them in if the flavor seems appropriate." UM pg. 133
They literally describe the SCP as "it has whatever I need", and say that (non-costly) material components are for fun and flavor.
you are taking things waaaay out of context and calling us liars while doing so is just plain demagogy.
Diego and i (And others as well) did not say that a spell pouch would not have the ingredients for any fey form spell - claiming we do is misleading and lying.
I'm pretty sure no1 would be too much against a spell pouch having a bit of pixy dust (well maybe the pixies would). what we're saying is that pieces of very rare and powerful monsters are not a reasonable outcome of what the pouch "Is assumed to have" (words you so kindly ignored while calling use liars).
A piece off of a cr 1-7 is probably fine. up to cr 12? maybe, depend on rarity. a piece of an avatar that can grant spells to followers? hell no!
so see, this is not blocking you from using the spell pouch to retrieve material to common fey's form - which is why it's not blacklisted in the table from the start.
but the risk hazard costs alone of getting a part of the more rare and powerful creatures (not to mention rarity cost. if it's rarer then gold expect it would cost more to obtain it) should cost way more then an item with a price tag of 5 gp (and this pouch include a lot more then only that specific part after all).
and in some cases it should only be obtained by the caster's efforts themselves - not everyone is crazy enough to go pick a great wyrm's scales!
i go with this as a rule of thumb:
anything that can be expected to cost more then the eschew materials feat covers (1 gp) will not be found in a normal spell pouch that was stall-bought from a level 1 commoner.
-he had enough trouble getting that cat fur that is in there....
To put it in your own words:
... and say that (non-costly) material components are for fun and flavor....
- all I say is that some monster parts are not included in "non-costly" . as they should in fact cost a lot more then the whole pouch (and sometimes even the village it was bought at as well).
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"The following lists summarize the new spells presented in this book, arranged by class and level. A superscript “F” or “M” appearing at the end of the spell’s name in the spell list denotes a focus or material component not normally included in a spell component pouch." UW pg. 222
"Fey Form I: Assume the form of a Small or Medium fey creature." UW pg. 223There is no (superscript) M at the end of the spell's name, and therefore, it is not a spell with a material component not normally included in a spell component pouch. Q.E.D.
"The advantage of spells that don’t require material components is they don’t require a spell component pouch (and in the rare circumstance in which if you’re grappled, you needn’t already have your material components in hand to cast the spell). Most material components are part of a spell for flavor rather than to satisfy rules. The guano and sulfur material components of fireball are there because early gunpowder (black powder) was made from guano and sulfur. The fur and glass rod material components of lightning bolt come from the ability to create a buildup of static electricity by rubbing fur against a glass rod. The game could present those spells without material components at all, and it would have a negligible effect on how the game plays (as proven by the “it has whatever I need” spell component pouch, and the sorcerer class getting Eschew Materials as a bonus feat)—they’re just in the spell for fun. Balance your spell assuming it has no material components or free material components, and then add them in if the flavor seems appropriate." UM pg. 133
They literally describe the SCP as "it has whatever I need", and say that (non-costly) material components are for fun and flavor.
...
So you are stating that I can live forever on the fruit tarts for Hideous laughter?
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So you are stating that I can live forever on the fruit tarts for Hideous laughter?
Only if you also have the drops of water for aqueous orb.
Can we please dial down the vitriol, everyone?
Yes, one frequent poster who is normally known for hoop-jumping logics that are still arguably within a possible reading of the rules is now advocating for something that is clearly against what the rules say (but could be considered "common sense"). Without clearly saying "this would be a house rule or GM decision," which would remove the whole flame war potential. But we can choose to use the nicest interpretation instead of getting ourselves riled up. And we can all acknowledge that the rules leave holes and it's impossible to actually play the game (instead of just theorycrafting) without GM and player discretion.
Side note: Sean K. Reynolds - one of the original designers of the PFRPG - also hates the concept of the spell component pouch. He was overruled/outnumbered, though, and no-cost material components stayed in the game.
you are taking things waaaay out of context and calling us liars while doing so is just plain demagogy.
Showing that you're lying is not demagogy, it's literally the opposite. Every single thing I said I have supported by evidence, i.e. rule quotes, while you two have been making unfounded statements. You two are the ones trying to swing the populace by repeating the same stuff again and again, and sprinkling emotion-inducing words like "ludicrous" in, which makes yout two the demagogues.
(words you so kindly ignored while calling use liars).
What I'm ignoring is an obvious attempt to twist words. "You can assume to have X" means you can take to have X unless there's evidence to the contrary. Until you can present such evidence, that phrase does not support your position.
what we're saying is that pieces of very rare and powerful monsters are not a reasonable outcome of what the pouch "Is assumed to have"
Quote a rule that says this.
A piece off of a cr 1-7 is probably fine. up to cr 12? maybe, depend on rarity. a piece of an avatar that can grant spells to followers? hell no!
Quote a rule that says this.
but the risk hazard costs alone of getting a part of the more rare and powerful creatures (not to mention rarity cost. if it's rarer then gold expect it would cost more to obtain it) should cost way more then an item with a price tag of 5 gp (and this pouch include a lot more then only that specific part after all).
Quote a rule that says this.
all I say is that some monster parts are not included in "non-costly"
Quote a rule that says this.
This is what I'm talking about. Four statement that you phrased as if they were true within the rules, zero rule support. Since I've given evidence to the contrary, until you can provice such rule support, these statements are lies per the definition of the word, which makes you a liar.
So you are stating that I can live forever on the fruit tarts for Hideous laughter?
Another appeal to ridicule. Well, I guess there's nothing else to do when you can't beat my arguments, and don't have the intellectual honestly to admit it...
Side note: Sean K. Reynolds - one of the original designers of the PFRPG - also hates the concept of the spell component pouch. He was overruled/outnumbered, though, and no-cost material components stayed in the game.
Fun fact: For those incinsequantial material components, the SCP functions 100% identical to a divine focus - you have to be able to access it to cast the spell, which requires a free hand, but it's not used up.
you are taking things waaaay out of context and calling us liars while doing so is just plain demagogy.Showing that you're lying is not demagogy, it's literally the opposite. Every single thing I said I have supported by evidence, i.e. rule quotes, while you two have been making unfounded statements. You two are the ones trying to swing the populace by repeating the same stuff again and again, and sprinkling emotion-inducing words like "ludicrous" in, which makes yout two the demagogues.
(words you so kindly ignored while calling use liars).What I'm ignoring is an obvious attempt to twist words. "You can assume to have X" means you can take to have X unless there's evidence to the contrary. Until you can present such evidence, that phrase does not support your position.
what we're saying is that pieces of very rare and powerful monsters are not a reasonable outcome of what the pouch "Is assumed to have"Quote a rule that says this.
A piece off of a cr 1-7 is probably fine. up to cr 12? maybe, depend on rarity. a piece of an avatar that can grant spells to followers? hell no!Quote a rule that says this.
but the risk hazard costs alone of getting a part of the more rare and powerful creatures (not to mention rarity cost. if it's rarer then gold expect it would cost more to obtain it) should cost way more then an item with a price tag of 5 gp (and this pouch include a lot more then only that specific part after all).Quote a rule that says this.
all I say is that some monster parts are not included in "non-costly"Quote a rule that says this.
This is what I'm talking about. Four statement that you phrased as if they were true within the rules, zero rule support. Since I've given evidence to the contrary, until you can provice such rule support,...
you twisted what i wrote and ignored part of it to make it so that the pouch would never have the material for the spell which is by the table needed thus making me lier by overruling the table rules. but since i was talking about specific monster material the table is still right for any other common monster for that spell which in turn doesn't go against the table rules and as such calling me a lier for going against it by ignoring what i said is a lie and demagogy. nice to ignore again what i wrote and prove me right.
the gm is the one who rule the prices of items that are not listed in the tables, and asking for a rule for that is plain argumentative. as it changes not only from gm to gm but also from regions in any game world. it's how trade works. something expansive in one place might cost a lot less in another. asking for a price tag of something that is obviously very expensive (a part of a creature who is an avatar and rarer them gold per mass) should there for not be in any table quotable as it's up to each gm to decide the availability of it in each place it is sought after and the price it should have. it's up there in world building along with finding magical items in specific size town etc (and if you are asking for rules to how a GM should build his world and what rule decide what is cheap in one place and expensive in another then you clearly trolling.)
let me get this clear, what i am saying is that the reason all the form polymorphing spells has a material of said monster you want to turn into (at least most of the spells iv seen) is to allow GM to control what the player can turn into by simply saying that is a very rare creature and the common spell pouch simply doesn't have such a rare and expensive thing in it.
GM who do not mind it can allow it, but as the prices of rare items is all up to the GM it should not and would not be listed in any rule you want me to bring forth. if a gm has goblins as a super rare creature that is near extinction you can be damn sure the local commoner selling you a spell pouch for 5 gp didn't add any goblin body part to it. but you might find a goblin tooth in the royal museum under very high security protocols.
deciding what is common or rare is up to the gm as part of his world building per the rules and so the spell pouch and spell material for the common monster in it still work for all spells that require them as worded in the rules. that in itself doesn't preclude the gm authority to decide what is rare or common in his world and thus what can be expected to be in a spell pouch and what not.
to put it this way -IF the gm by the rules, decided that in his world there are no fruits. one would have a problem trying to cast Hideous laughter if he relay on the spell materials...
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What I'm ignoring is an obvious attempt to twist words. "You can assume to have X" means you can take to have X unless there's evidence to the contrary. Until you can present such evidence, that phrase does not support your position.
Evidence to the contrary: it is physically impossible to place in a non-magical pouch that weighs 2 lbs. when full an unlimited number of components for more than a thousand spells.
Quote a rule that says this.what we're saying is that pieces of very rare and powerful monsters are not a reasonable outcome of what the pouch "Is assumed to have"
Quote a rule that says this.
but the risk hazard costs alone of getting a part of the more rare and powerful creatures (not to mention rarity cost. if it's rarer then gold expect it would cost more to obtain it) should cost way more then an item with a price tag of 5 gp (and this pouch include a lot more then only that specific part after all).
What rules define how you get pieces of a creature?
AFAIK, there is no rule in the CRB besides "common sense", but, as you have pointed out, we are not speaking common sense, but rules.The only rule I know is in Ultimate Wilderness:
Harvesting Trophy Components: Once a character identifies potential trophies, she must attempt a skill check to harvest the relevant components. This is typically either a Survival check (for external features, such as hide, horns, teeth, or the like) or a Heal check (for internal features, such as blood, internal organs, or sweat). The DC for this check is equal to 15 + the creature’s CR. Harvesting trophy components generally takes 10 minutes of work (at the GM’s discretion, this could be as much as 1 hour of work for creatures whose bodies are particularly difficult to work with).
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Selling Trophies
Once a trophy is created, it can be kept or sold. Generally, a trophy can be sold to any merchant for its full value, as if it were an art object, but at the GM’s discretion, certain trophies may require the PC to seek out black markets or specialized merchants to receive the full price. In some societies, selling certain trophies may be illegal or have other ramifications.
A trophy’s value is determined by the CR of the creature from which it was harvested, as indicated on the following table. For all purposes related to harvesting trophies, the CR refers to a creature’s CR without any class levels (a CR 10 troll oracle would still count as a CR 5 source for any trophies it yields). Note that the value for bounties for defeating specific creatures should not be governed by these rules but should instead be determined by the GM as appropriate for the adventure. Creatures that do not have racial Hit Dice and whose CR is defined by class level generally do not provide valuable components for trophies.
Table 4–9: Trophy Value by CR
CR Value
1 50 gp
2 100 gp
3 150 gp
4 200 gp
5 300 gp
6 400 gp
7 500 gp
8 650 gp
9 850 gp
10 1,000 gp
11 1,400 gp
12 1,800 gp
13 2,300 gp
14 3,000 gp
15 3,900 gp
16 5,000 gp
17 6,400 gp
18 8,000 gp
19 10,500 gp
20 13,000 gp
So, from Ultimate Wilderness onward, pieces of a creature have a monetary value.
Ultimate wilderness has rules about foraging for inexpensive components:
You can forage enough supplies to approximate the contents of an alchemy crafting kit or a spell component pouch with a successful Survival check and 2d4 hours of effort, but the GM can rule that certain components simply aren’t available in an area (for example, bat guano cannot be foraged in terrain where no bats live).
but they don't apply to monster pieces, as those have a value, as shown in the same book.
Evidence to the contrary: it is physically impossible to place in a non-magical pouch that weighs 2 lbs. when full an unlimited number of components for more than a thousand spells.
And this is why the rules say to assume you have everything you need, and not that an SCP actually contains literally every component.
What rules define how you get pieces of a creature?
AFAIK, there is no rule in the CRB besides "common sense"
Ever thought that maybe that part was deliberately not covered by rules? That material components aren't supposed to be gathered? That instead of having to come up with some complicated system that the rules give them zero support on, a GM is simply supposed to let material components be pure flavor?
So, from Ultimate Wilderness onward, pieces of a creature have a monetary value.
This is objectively wrong. Trophy pieces have a monetary value. But not every part of a creature makes a suitable trophy - "To identify what portions of a creature have value as trophies, a character must succeed at a Knowledge check" UW pg. 162 - wereas material components just ask for "a piece of the creature". Could be a drop of blood, a piece of its flesh, etc. Those 'portions of a creature' not suitable for a trophy do not have any value given, and thus there's still nothing that makes those material component not inexpensive.
@zza ni: Every post you make without a rule quote (or any quote from a book) might as well be an admittence that you don't have the rules on your side. You are still making assumptions with zero rule support.
the gm is the one who rule the prices of items that are not listed in the tables
Quote a rule that says not all material components for polymorph spells are inexpensive. Quote a rule that says the GM is supposed to decide on which components not listed to be non-inexpensive should be in an SCP. Can't? Then your statement is wrong.
let me get this clear, what i am saying is that the reason all the form polymorphing spells has a material of said monster you want to turn into (at least most of the spells iv seen) is to allow GM to control what the player can turn into by simply saying that is a very rare creature and the common spell pouch simply doesn't have such a rare and expensive thing in it.
Then quote something from a book that says so. Can't? Then your statement is wrong.
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Evidence to the contrary: it is physically impossible to place in a non-magical pouch that weighs 2 lbs. when full an unlimited number of components for more than a thousand spells.And this is why the rules say to assume you have everything you need, and not that an SCP actually contains literally every component.
Do you want a more realistic example?
An 8th-level wizard will have about 18 spell slots. About half of them will require some material component.Let's consider a wilderness adventure with a long trek and exploration, with an average of one semi-challenging encounter a day.
Our wizard will be casting every day:
- Alarm: a tiny bell and a piece of very fine silver wire (unpriced focus, so included in the pouch);
- Mage armor: a piece of cured leather (unpriced focus, so included in the pouch);
- Tiny hut (component: a small crystal bead) or Rope trick (component: powdered corn and a twisted loop of parchment);
- Fly: focus (a wing feather);
- Fireball: M (a ball of bat guano and sulfur).
What does he need if he thinks he will have to trek for 10 days?
1 a tiny bell and a piece of very fine silver wire
1 piece of cured leather
10 small crystal beads
1 wing feather
10 a ball of bat guano and sulfur
As it is all stuff that you need to find in your pouch and manipulate during your turn it can't be too small or too large.
Let's say the components weigh 1/2 ounce apiece.
We have space for 64 components and 23 are already used.
At the end of the trek, our wizard will have a dungeon to explore, so he has to prepare for a couple of days of serious combat, where he will use most of his spells. Let's say 30 staple spells will be used in two days, half of those with M components.
Now we are at 38 spaces used.
Perfect, the spellpouch works fine, but there are the non-staple spells. Some obstacles will have to be overcome using his bonded amulet and one of the spells he doesn't usually memorize. So now he needs the components for all his other spells.
How many spells a wizard knows varies on different campaigns, but I doubt an 8th level wizard will have less than 35-40 known spells.
The components to cast those spells once will require at least another 15 slots.
Now we are at 53 slots used.
If something happens and the wizard has miscalculated the time needed he could find that he hasn't the components from some of his staple spells.
So we return to a non-magical Schrodinger spellpouch that always has the component needed, or we wy should recognize that "assume" is way more limited than what people argue it means.
All the above without considering the Pholymorp spells.
If our wizard has Beast shape I his spellpouch needs to contain a piece of every small or medium animal known. Not only what is in the Bestiaries, but every animal. Our wizard needs to transform into a prairie dog because that is what is common in the area and he wants to do some exploring unseen? He needs a piece of one.
So, suddenly our 64 slots (or whatever number you prefer) are too few. Animals in Pathfinder refers only to mammals, birds, and reptiles, but we are still speaking of thousand of creatures. Unless the sample needed is a couple of cells (and then how do you manipulate it?) you can keep only a fraction of that in your spellpouch.
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So we return to a non-magical Schrodinger spellpouch that always has the component needed, or we wy should recognize that "assume" is way more limited than what people argue it means.
The "non-magical Schrodinger spellpouch," as you called it, is what we have. I linked to this above, but here's the actual text of what Sean K. Reynolds (one of the original designers on the Pathfinder RPG) said - while still working at Paizo - about no-cost material components. He didn't like the implications either, but was overruled/outvoted.
I hate no-cost material components in spells. They're either pointless, or in-jokes, or puns, and they have no game effect except to make casting M spells more difficult or impossible in certain circumstances, and they required creating the MacGuffin Component Pouch Rule (aka "I never spend money on this, I automatically fill it up whenever I'm in town even if this desert town doesn't have any water from melted snow and thus I shouldn't really be able to get the M component for my favorite ice spell, blah blah blah, yet I still can't cast these spells if I lose this not-a-magic-item pouch"), and they're often accidentally overlooked when those circumstances come up, which means you end up with instances of "oh, I shouldn't have been able to cast that two rounds ago." Bleh.
RANT OVER.
END OF LINE.
Emphasis mine, but the point is the "Schrodinger spellpouch" a.k.a the "MacGuffin Component Pouch Rule" is and was a deliberate part of the game design.
I personally am 100% on board with the argument that polymorph spells that require pieces of rare (or extremely specific, like an individual) creatures should not be automatically in your spell pouch. But that's a GM revision to the rules.