Let's say we're using the Silent Whisper's Message. Does the amp effect care about the spell's target? It seems to have its own range for its effect separate from the cantrip I use.
If I cast Message on someone 120 ft away, I can only use the amp effect on myself or an ally within 30 ft?
If I cast Message on myself, I don't have to use the amp effect on myself and can target any ally within 30 ft?
I think the intent is that the amp affects one of the targets. Otherwise the target restrictions on the spell wouldn’t make sense.
I think the intent is that the amp affects one of the targets.
Maybe.
Possibly even probably.
But that isn't what it actually says though.
Though it seems like this part:
You can also have the amped psi cantrip attempt to counteract...
may indeed only be able to be used on the target of the original cantrip.
Though if that is a separate effect option, it may not have the 30 ft range limit that the "+2 status bonus to Will saves" effect has.
...
Which is really, really strange.
So: Message cantrip from Silent Whisper Psychic, cast on an ally at 100 ft, Amped with Mental Balm. The target ally at 100 ft gets the counteract effect trying to forcibly end Evil Eye affecting them. Then you or another ally within 30 ft of you gets the +2 bonus to Will saves.
Again, not really thinking that is what is intended - but that is what is written.
I thought the counteract effect referred to the same 30 ft and targets of the first effect? It's not setting a completely new range for the spell is it?
Other amp effects are direct at stating how it affects the spell's target or influence so that's why I thought seemed odd Mental Balm.
Choose one creature hit by the spell (if the spell has a spell attack roll) or that fails its save against the spell (if the spell requires a save).
You or one target of the spell gains resistance to physical damage equal to 2 + the spell's level until the start of your next turn.
Choose one target of the spell or one creature in its area.
The more consistent - and probably RAI - way of running the Amp is to run it the same way as the other ones you mentioned. The Amp effects are applied to either you the caster, or the target of the cantrip being Amped. With the additional restriction that the target has to be within 30 feet.
I thought the counteract effect referred to the same 30 ft and targets of the first effect? It's not setting a completely new range for the spell is it?
My take on the literal RAW is that:
The counteract effect is being associated with "the amped psi cantrip" - since that is what is doing the counteracting. So since the cantrip itself is doing the counteracting, the range and target for the counteract effect would be the same target as the cantrip itself.
The +2 Will save bonus is a separate effect of the Amp and has its own range and targeting rules. Which apparently can be completely different than the range and target of the cantrip is.
The counteract effect is being associated with "the amped psi cantrip" - since that is what is doing the counteracting.
Thanks, missed that. That first effect targeting is strange though but remains functional so how it was intended could go either way. Treating it consistently with the others feels to be the best approach.
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The more consistent - and probably RAI - way of running the Amp is to run it the same way as the other ones you mentioned. The Amp effects are applied to either you the caster, or the target of the cantrip being Amped. With the additional restriction that the target has to be within 30 feet.
I thought the counteract effect referred to the same 30 ft and targets of the first effect? It's not setting a completely new range for the spell is it?My take on the literal RAW is that:
The counteract effect is being associated with "the amped psi cantrip" - since that is what is doing the counteracting. So since the cantrip itself is doing the counteracting, the range and target for the counteract effect would be the same target as the cantrip itself.
The +2 Will save bonus is a separate effect of the Amp and has its own range and targeting rules. Which apparently can be completely different than the range and target of the cantrip is.
I disagree with your interpretation. "Yourself or the chosen ally" speaks about the ally at 30ft., not the target(s) of the amped cantrip. If it was targetting the target(s) of the amped cantrip, it wouldn't say "the chosen ally" but "one of the targets of the cantrip" as it can target multiple allies.
Agree with SuperBidi. As written the entire amp effect is basically completely disconnected from the spell you cast. You pick yourself or another ally, give them the bonuses, and attempt the counteract check, and it has nothing to do with the normal function of the spell.
And uh, idk, it feels intended to me. It calls out that you have to pick someone within 30 feet, but there's no such restriction on the kind of spell you can target with the amp.
So you shoot a Message to someone 100 feet away, then give an ally next to you the bonus to will saves and make a counteract check against an appropriate effect against them. RAW and RAI as far as I can tell.
For what it's worth, I think the spell description is decently supportive of the amp disconnect. "Your spells release soothing mental waves." Combined with the specific 30ft range, I can see it fits this visual just as well. The "amped psi cantrip counteracts" part gives me doubt but then the "chosen ally" part SuperBidi points out brings me right back to seeing the amp effect being its separate thing.
