Thrown weapon builds and usability.

[aobst128]

I'd like to know and compile some views on how thrown weapons fit into the game and how best to utilize them. There's some obvious downsides to thrown attacks with a property rune tax and short range. The upsides are being able to switch hit and only have one set of runes compared to keeping a standard melee weapon and carrying a bow with you. Plus having a free hand. Are these good balance points? Seems fine to me mostly but what are everyone else's thoughts?

In terms of classes to use them, swashbuckler stands out as they only have thrown weapons for their ranged options and champions can ignore the rune tax. Fighters have the best support feats for them but also the best support feats for bows. What are some that might stand out as well?

[breithauptclan]

I haven't really dabbled in thrown weapon builds. I don't think they make good primary weapons.

As a one-off attack every now and then, it seems to work fine.

aobst128 wrote:

In terms of classes to use them, swashbuckler stands out as they only have thrown weapons for their ranged options

Is there something besides Flying Blade that I am not aware of?

Because Barbarian has Raging Thrower which basically does the same thing - lets you use your basic class abilities with thrown weapons.

But then Barbarian also gets Oversized Throw which means that you don't have to pay for runed thrown weapons. And Friendly Toss which does similar but is a lot funnier.

[aobst128]

breithauptclan wrote:

I haven't really dabbled in thrown weapon builds. I don't think they make good primary weapons.

As a one-off attack every now and then, it seems to work fine.

aobst128 wrote:

In terms of classes to use them, swashbuckler stands out as they only have thrown weapons for their ranged options

Is there something besides Flying Blade that I am not aware of?

Because Barbarian has Raging Thrower which basically does the same thing - lets you use your basic class abilities with thrown weapons.

But then Barbarian also gets Oversized Throw which means that you don't have to pay for runed thrown weapons. And Friendly Toss which does similar but is a lot funnier.

Yes, flying blade is what I was referring to. I tend to forget barbarians thrown weapon support because of their strength key. The 16th level feat they get to make a line attack with a trident or javelin is killer if you can line enough creatures up.

[aobst128]

I think you could definitely make a thrown weapon a good main weapon with some good planning, and maybe some free archetypes. A champion of Kurgess has a returning javelin that does d8s at lvl 3 Simplist solution and has a hand free for a shield. Champions are likely gonna be in melee so the short range is manageable.

My idea for a thrown weapon on Maximum Overdrive would be an inventor with a trident. This one takes time and plenty of archetyping but the result is basically a trident transformed into a rifle. Level 1 mod is to add the 2 hand trait to have a d10 thrown weapon. Archetype into ranger for hunt prey and far shot. With free archetype, you could forgo a 6th and 8th level class feat to get into rogue and pick up strong arm and far shot simultaneously giving your trident 60 feet of range. 120 with hunt prey. Be a half elf to pick up champion at 9th and divine ally at 10th. By 15th level you upgrade your die size and you're megaton striking with d12s at 60/120 feet.

[Guntermench]

Thrown weapons become a lot more interesting with Automatic Bonus Progression.

[aobst128]

Guntermench wrote:

Thrown weapons become a lot more interesting with Automatic Bonus Progression.

Up until good property runes anyways.

[Guntermench]

If you're using them. Even then only once you can stick two on there.

[aobst128]

Guntermench wrote:

If you're using them. Even then only once you can stick two on there.

That's true. With quick draw and ABP, thrown weapons essentially become free hand weapons. Only problem is not having access to other specific action attacks like finishers or hunters aim.

[Guntermench]

You can still draw then use them, but yeah you don't gain anything but style points.

[SuperBidi]

aobst128 wrote:

I tend to forget barbarians thrown weapon support because of their strength key.

Once you get Dual Thrower, a double Trident Barbarian does less than 10% less damage than a Greatsword Barbarian and more damage than a Longbow Flurry Ranger. This is in my opinion the best build for pure damage (also because you don't need much setup besides raging).

You also have the advantage of being able to strike at melee range, avoiding AoOs and benefiting from Flanking when you can grab it.
It's only drawback is range and the need to wait for level 4 to grab the runes and the feats (but that's an issue for most thrown builds).

[YuriP]

IMO thrown weapons are the best ranged weapon just below bows. Because they easily turned as 1-action attack with Quick Draw and specially due Returning rune and because receives full str bonus. This provides them a better DPR than mostly reload weapons and cantrips.

The distance limitation in practice is way less problematic than it appears due most encounters happen inside closed areas with usually less than 30ft distance from players and opponents when the encounter begins. Even in open areas due most battle maps size limitations distance rarely pass from 60ft.

Curiously the best thrown weapon IMO are melee weapons with thrown trait like tridents because they don't suffer from AoO in melee due the fact that you can use them as melee weapons.

They usually are excellent choices for paladins because it allows their reaction counterattack to have a little longer range and for Barbarians once they usually lack from others long range alternatives to attack using rage bonus.

The main disadvantage IMO is for aerial and submarine battles. Due the distances increases considerably when a 3º dimension needs to be considered.

[The Raven Black]

All my Paladins ever will have Ranged Reprisal, a Returning trident and use Shifting to have it be their deity's weapon whenever possible.