If he does, it will be limited to mostly flavor archetypes that fit the campaign (its a naval point crawl, so stuff like pirate, lore master, archeologist, etc. He has said medic seems a bit too combat focused to fit as the free one.)
Pirate seems more combat focused than medic: in fact medic has 2 feats that are skill feats and that's 2 more than pirate.
For me, I'd say forensic investigator with the medic archetype. I'm not a fan of the action economy of using the alchemist for buffing/healing and for attacking the starting levels are quite painful with the lack of Infused Reagents to get though the day until you can get Perpetual Infusions.
Also, the Thaumaturge that's coming out in a few days might be a fit for you as it can trigger weaknesses [including elemental], and has buffs, and debuffs depending on your implements.
You might be able to nudge the gun-user into covering elemental damage with the Alchemical Shot gunslinger feat. I do think the Investigator is the best choice for you in terms of being an effective healer and also being a fun character to play; you should look at the Godless Healing feat, seems very appropriate for your character.
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Alchemists and Investigators are probably the weakest classes - or at least the hardest ones to make competitive. People will chime in and say, "well, if you build them in just such and so a way, they're fine" and they're probably not wrong. But it is certainly far easier to make a profoundly unsatisfying alchemist or investigator than any other class in the game.
Alchemists and Investigators are probably the weakest classes - or at least the hardest ones to make competitive. People will chime in and say, "well, if you build them in just such and so a way, they're fine" and they're probably not wrong. But it is certainly far easier to make a profoundly unsatisfying alchemist or investigator than any other class in the game.
Eh... While I agree with the alchemist, the Investigator is a different beast. Build wise all the Investigator really needs is something to do in combat besides Strike when Devise a Strategem rolls low. Their core combat resource is extremely straightforward. And the OP sounds like they know what they are doing. The big issue is the rest of his party won't, which is why I'd favor Investigator over the Alchemist. Mutagens are pretty fiddly.
When the Investigator is unsatisfying it has more to do with the campaign than the build. It gives up a decent chunk of combat power to be good at investigating things, so if the GM isn't giving you opportunity to do that you will have a bad time regardless of build. Investigators are pretty beastly in fights where they can observe the enemy for a minute first to Pursue them as a Lead. They struggle if the GM just continuously ambushes them with random monsters without warning. Or if the GM is stingy with Recall Knowledge information.
I do think they are more complicated to play. Advanced Player's Guide classes are for advanced players. But that's more about play than builds.
Campaign appropriateness could be a major problem that you bring it up. The campaign is going to be a heavily player exploration campaign with the pcs having a pirate boat sailing from island to island. No overarching mystery.
The gm doesn't often use random encounters, we usually know about encounters beforehand, but will the lack of mystery make the class awkward?
It can work, though it will be rather less intuitive.
Investigator doesn't always investigate mysteries. They can investigate people, or locations just as well.
So dungeon diving will be more about searching and solving the puzzles and non-combat challenges that are there - assuming that there are any.
Investigating a combat (especially if you can do so before combat actually breaks out), would be things like analyzing plans of attack or possible weaknesses. Like Devise a Strategem, but on a larger scale.
It could also involve researching things - like locations of interest to the plot. Places where treasure is, or where people of note went.
I just talked to my party about this and they said they liked the change, but were worried that the investigator was similar to the rogue class, and so it could have too much overlap with the two rogues.
Does the investigator play similarly to the rogue? What overlap would I have to worry about? How different could I make it? Do you think investigator is too similar to the rogue?
Not necessarily. The biggest point in common is they main the same weapons, which means you might have to flip a coin on who gets to use the first +1 striking rapier you find. (Though with Devise a Strategem handing off the weapon mid fight could be viable if you spot a chance to crit with it.)
Both classes are skill monkeys, but they can choose what skills they focus on. As long as you coordinate your increases it shouldn't be a problem. Presumably they will prioritize thief skills like stealth and thievery and you can handle the knowledge skills.
The better question is if your party has enough skill coverage. But it isn't like your character concept will allow a barbarian or sorcerer. Alchemists are still kinda skill monkeys, they just spread their bonuses out to other party members.
I will note quick silver mutagens would be sweet on a gunslinger.
Investigator with the Forensic Medicine methodology and the Medic archetype is a great primary healer, so it will be very effective and different from the rogues in your party. You don't have to take Medic as the free archetype; just pay for it with your Investigator feats. The game recommends allowing that option if you restrict the options taken from free archetype, but check with your GM just in case they want to play it in a way other than the recommended way.
If neither of the rogues is playing a Mastermind, the Investigator is also going to be quite a bit better at doing recall knowledge checks, especially if you take a few additional lore skill feats to get some more maxed out lores using Intelligence specific to the setting you are in.
I would not recommend playing alchemist at low levels. They become pretty excellent characters at level 11 when the good mutagens come online, but they really have a hard time being effective before then.
Medic is IMO mandatory because it allows a 2x every hour ( in addition to the flat healing it provides).
In addition to that, it won't suck class feats, because of the lvl 4 and lvl 6 skill feats.
And Holistic Care qualifies for the free Skillful Lessons skill feat at 6th.
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One thing that I would look into is if you can rearrange things to get Continual Recovery at level 3 instead of level 5. Waiting until level 5 isn't terrible, but that will be two levels of play that you won't have it.
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Alright I think I am deffinitly going investigator! it looks like it fits the character better than I thought, generally works smoother than the alchemist, and all around seems like a good time! I talked with the gm about it and they also said it sounded like it would be fun to gm for!
Hows this build look? I went as support heavy as I could. https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=197986
Why not pick up Medic Dedication and Continual Recovery at level 2? Those will be by far the most impactful feats at that level. That also frees you up to take Doctor's Visitation at 4, which gets your party healer role completely on line as soon as possible. At level 6, you could then take any of the investigator feats from level 2, 4, or 6 you like best.
Edit: I love your art for the character, and it really brings the feel you're going for to life. Investigators are one of the classes that make the best use of consumable bombs since you pretty much never waste one with a miss due to devise a strategem. I regularly tag bosses with purchased/crafted Acid Bombs on my investigator to get persistent damage that works against their high health pools.
I really like the shared stratagem feat and how it synergizes with having rogues in the party, but I can see how taking medic dedication at level 2 would make low levels go smoother and let me take the skill feats earlier. I'll switch it to that!
Shared Strategem seems great in your party, for sure. If your Rogues are having a hard time getting flat-footed by 6, then you should definitely take the feat.
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I forgot to mention that in order to properly use reason rapidly, by lvl 15 you should consider hitting legendary arcana and and getting unified theory, in order to use arcana for any recall knowledge check.
Many GMs, including me, will not allow Unified Theory to work on RK checks that have nothing to do with a magical Tradition, such as identifying a creature.
Just wanted to check one more thing before fully 100% deciding on investigator, what are you supposed to do when you get a bad roll on devise a stratagem?
That is the big puzzle piece of playing an Investigator in combat.
If you were playing the build posted above, what would you do when you roll a bad stratagem?
Often I would go with something defensive, or helping the other characters. If you can get a cantrip through an item like a Spellheart, that would work too.
Move away from an enemy. Raise a shield or a parry weapon if you have one. Demoralize or other skill actions. Heal an ally or yourself. Use an item, such as a smokestick.
Aid is probably an option. The timing of when Devise a Strategem expires is usually ruled to be the end of your turn, so it wouldn't apply to reactions like Attack of Opportunity or Aid. So you would roll a new attack roll when using the Aid reaction.
Cantrips are good too, least early on.
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Using a ranged weapon can be a good option: as long as there are more than 1 foe, just target another foe as the d20 only works with your Devise a Stratagem target.
Just saw the compliments on the art, thank you!
I really like the changes on the build, I can see that being a much smoother leveling and play experience. I like the feats you added, especially blind fight and and reason rapidly. I always like my martial characters to push the bounds of reality at higher levels, and both of those feel very fantasy in a way I enjoy!
If the dm does wind up allowing free archetype, but only allowing ones that are either mostly flavor or feel thematic to a naval exploration campaign, what would y'all recommend as an added free archetype?
Just wanted to check one more thing before fully 100% deciding on investigator, what are you supposed to do when you get a bad roll on devise a stratagem?
Mainly, I really like this build and think it fits the character super well, but it doesn't have any spells, athletics, or social skills, it is going to need a rapier in one hand and a free hand for medicine so it can't hold a shield. I'm kinda just not sure what you do when attacking is a bad option.
If you were playing the build posted above, what would you do when you roll a bad stratagem?
Your default is probably going to be using Battle Medicine if an ally is missing a decent chunk of HP and the fight doesn't look like it's coming to an end before that would be relevant. In PF2, it's actually better to heal proactively instead of after someone goes down because a character coming back from down has an extra dying condition and needs to take at least 2 actions to grab their primary weapon and stand up.
If Battle Medicine isn't applicable, attacking something else using your dex modifier instead of int is pretty good.
Picking up an attack cantrip from a different archetype or spell heart is pretty great, though, if that ends up being an option in your setting.
Athletics, even if you aren't planning on raising your strength, is a fine skill to max out as an option. Making a trip at full map with low strength is as good or better than a second attack for practically the entire game.
The Aid action is also pretty great at starting after the first few levels due to the flat DC of 20.
Taking Search, move, or recall knowledge actions to be the one figuring out the combat is also just fine.