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Ankou Shadow + Trip, or combat maneuvers more generally. I haven't seen a lot of discussion around this archetype so I'm curious what people think of it (I did see it in IluzryMage's recent guide).
Disclaimer: I am running a lvl 4 Cleric (Travel/Luck) // Ankou Shadow gestalt that's built around being a reach cleric ala Brewer's guide. But I'll put a spoiler at the end with those details since becoming a one man phalanx is the interesting part here.
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Thoughts about the Ankou Shadow
- Shadows seem to threaten with whatever weapon you're wielding, and can take AoOs post-5. You can make trip attacks with weapon AoOs, so thusly, shadows should be able to trip.
- Mandatory basic feats. Combat Reflexes. Improved & Greater Trip. Surprise Maneuver seems really good post-9. Not as good as on rogue, but Slayer gets full BAB to even it out.
- Post-5 you can have your shadows flank and swift action aid another a single enemy, which can get you a minimum +4. The shadows don't utilize flanking/aid another feats, but I think buffs worded as "when you (i.e. the slayer) flank, X occurs" should work.
- This actually seems insanely strong because you can permanently turn on your sneak attacks when soloing enemies.
- You share movement with shadows, and they provoke AoOs, but with a reach weapon this isn't as big a deal. If you can't position them safely, then just leave them behind you as you run a circle around your enemy or a line across the battlefield. Acrobatics seems mandatory for this reason, I think.
- Getting shadows up is a full round, but you can leave them up forever, and hopefully, the person actually hitting will draw more aggro than the flanking/aiding shadows. Evasion is a mandatory talent at level 10. How strong the shadows are depends entirely on how much you piss off your GM.
- Slayer Talents really suck, just over 20% of them are Samaran only. This is doubly true for Ankou's Shadows who don't get Studied Target. You'll most likely want Slow Reactions, and then nothing but Ranger Combat Style and Rogue Talents.
- Ascension Games has a gross polearm combat style slayers can take. Opens up Cleaving Finish, Whirlwind, and Pin Down without the feat prereqs.
- Alternate build (or late game retraining), go down the Kitsune line and become a one-man phalanx of dirty tricks.
- Forest Warden gives your flanking bonus an additional +2, and gets you +2d6 sneak attack dice (which also adds to Surprise Maneuver). This should actually net you +1 in most circumstances since you lost 3 BAB, but that depends on how often your GM hits your shadows. But you also get a ton of other goodies even if your shadows go down.
- It might be wise to spec into dirty tricks post-10 to deal with the issues of late game trip builds. You have to get the Dueling (FG) property on your weapon, but that seems worth it to transition all your buffs to dirty trick.
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The build is pretty much exactly the same as a normal Ankou Shadow except:
- The idea is to maximize action economy in our party's favor, a control build. This comes not only from tripping/tricking away your enemy's actions, but by increasing our own. By 5 we should be using a swift action every round, and by 11th an immediate with Divine Interference. I took Devout Pilgrim as well, which means I can cast a spell and teleport an ally into full attack range on the same turn.
- 5 feats tossed to Cleric side (Divine Interference, Extend / Reach / Quicken Spell, Spell Perfection). It sounded like less in my head.
- GM allowed me to Dex a Glaive with Bladed Brush and Deadly Agility since I was willing to sink 3 feats into it.
- Cleric really fills out Slayer's class skill list
Since Slayer Talents suck doubly for Ankou Shadow, GM let me double dip unchained/chained rogue talents, which means 4 combat feats instead of 2 (bless them).
We also use Elephant in the Room.
It's an archetype that introduces a pretty restricted and complex shadow double ability while also doing away with the Slayer's main accuracy booster. I guess most people don't think it's worth the hassle.
Thoughts about the Ankou Shadow
- Shadows seem to threaten with whatever weapon you're wielding, and can take AoOs post-5. You can make trip attacks with weapon AoOs, so thusly, shadows should be able to trip.
I'd disagree with that they can take AoOs. The lv 5 shadows are extremely limited in what they can do and I don't think AoOs are part of that. As written they seem unable to do anything but move (as part of your move action), provide flanking, and aid another at your command.
It's first at level 15 that you could actually instruct one of them to open a door, which seems a lot less complex than taking an AoO. You could argue that they're able to take AoOs at level 10 when you can use them as origin points for attacks, but a stricter GM may say that's in the purview of the capstone.
Personally, I wouldn't use Cleric as the second half of the gestalt... I would use Nature Fang Druid, to get my Studied Target back. The way Studied Target works, it would apply to the DC's of all your Druid spells and stuffs... nice, huh? As a Druid, you could still take a Domain. It doesn't appear you have much focus on Channel Energy, so no loss there as a Druid. Nature Fang gives you even more Slayer Talents, too... and +1D6 Sneak Attack, not that it matters because Sneak Attack sucks, but it is there.
Personally, I wouldn't use Cleric as the second half of the gestalt... I would use Nature Fang Druid, to get my Studied Target back. The way Studied Target works, it would apply to the DC's of all your Druid spells and stuffs... nice, huh? As a Druid, you could still take a Domain. It doesn't appear you have much focus on Channel Energy, so no loss there as a Druid. Nature Fang gives you even more Slayer Talents, too... and +1D6 Sneak Attack, not that it matters because Sneak Attack sucks, but it is there.
Oh wow this is so good. Thanks for pointing that out. The animal companion I think totally pushes it over the top.
Also, why does Sneak Attack suck? I know neither class gets good SA progression, but my impression was full BAB balanced that out since it can apply more frequently.
It's an archetype that introduces a pretty restricted and complex shadow double ability while also doing away with the Slayer's main accuracy booster. I guess most people don't think it's worth the hassle.
Thoughts about the Ankou Shadow
- Shadows seem to threaten with whatever weapon you're wielding, and can take AoOs post-5. You can make trip attacks with weapon AoOs, so thusly, shadows should be able to trip.I'd disagree with that they can take AoOs. The lv 5 shadows are extremely limited in what they can do and I don't think AoOs are part of that. As written they seem unable to do anything but move (as part of your move action), provide flanking, and aid another at your command.
It's first at level 15 that you could actually instruct one of them to open a door, which seems a lot less complex than taking an AoO. You could argue that they're able to take AoOs at level 10 when you can use them as origin points for attacks, but a stricter GM may say that's in the purview of the capstone.
Honestly I just read they can AoO on a reddit post and took that answer for granted, so thank you for making me actually look into this. I'm fairly certain however that RAW they can AoO, though I get it might seem odd.
The one thing we know is they flank, which according to the rules means they have to be threatening squares.
When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.
And of course
Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing certain actions within a threatened square.
This would still preclude them from taking AoOs if they were any sort of action, but it doesn't seem they are. AoOs aren't an immediate or free action, they're a totally separate mechanic that has no action attached to it, characterized as a "free attack"
I'd totally understand if a GM didn't accept this interpretation, thankfully I asked mine and they seem to.
Honestly I just read they can AoO on a reddit post and took that answer for granted, so thank you for making me actually look into this. I'm fairly certain however that RAW they can AoO, though I get it might seem odd.
Eh, RAW the doubles can only do what is outlined in their description and nothing else.
RAW, and RAI, the doubles don't even have an attack bonus at level 5. The only stats they possess are AC, CMD, and saving throws. Which is why you're using your BAB+INT for the Aid Another checks you can direct them to perform rather than their attack rolls.
But if you've already convinced your GM then go for it. If you choose Nature Fang I'd mount your companion and circle around the battlefield, dropping of the doubles in strategic positions. If you can squeeze in the Escape Route feat then neither you or the mount will provoke AoOs when it moves.
Honestly I just read they can AoO on a reddit post and took that answer for granted, so thank you for making me actually look into this. I'm fairly certain however that RAW they can AoO, though I get it might seem odd.Eh, RAW the doubles can only do what is outlined in their description and nothing else.
RAW, and RAI, the doubles don't even have an attack bonus at level 5. The only stats they possess are AC, CMD, and saving throws. Which is why you're using your BAB+INT for the Aid Another checks you can direct them to perform rather than their attack rolls.
But if you've already convinced your GM then go for it. If you choose Nature Fang I'd mount your companion and circle around the battlefield, dropping of the doubles in strategic positions. If you can squeeze in the Escape Route feat then neither you or the mount will provoke AoOs when it moves.
Ugh, yeah, I guess the archetype just sucks then.
I'm going to bring this up to my GM and go back to the drawing board I suppose.