blinded


Rules Questions


if a dire bear gets BLINDED but he has scent does he still hav line of sight to his target???

Liberty's Edge

No. Scent works a weak form of blindsense, and neither of the two gives line of sight. They allow the creature to pinpoint the opponent location, while line of sight requires you to be able to "see" the target

To get line of sight you need something like blindsense, that allows you to "maneuver and fight as well as a sighted creature".


so a bear being unable to see due to blinded cnt hav line of sight even if it has scent ability ??

Liberty's Edge

MR CRITICAL wrote:
so a bear being unable to see due to blinded cnt hav line of sight even if it has scent ability ??

Exact. It will only know in what square is the enemy.


notice too that scent doesn't pinpoint automatically unless at 5 ft range of enemies.

"When a creature detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed—only its presence somewhere within range. The creature can take a move action to note the direction of the scent. When the creature is within 5 feet of the source, it pinpoints the source’s location."

let's say a creature has 'scent 30 ft'.

if it is beyond 30 ft of a hidden(/invisibile/can't be seen due to blindness etc) target (and the wind doesn't blow in the right direction and the other creature doesn't have a strong scent etc, stuff that change the range). then it isn't even aware (at least not from the scent ability) of said target presences.
once the distance is 30ft or less, but not yet 5 ft. the creature with scent is aware of the target's presence. but not where it is, nor the direction it from it.
it can use a move action to find out in which direction the target is. (and use the other move action to get close enough).

once the creature is 5 ft away from the target it can pinpoint the exact space it is in.
(i'm not 100% sure by the words if this too take a move action or is automatic. i think the latter, since they bothered talking about using an action to find the direction i guess pinpointing is no action or they would have said so).

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in comparison, 'blindsense 30 ft' or 'tremorsense 30 ft' can both pinpoint automatically a valid target's space in range (tremorsense if the target touches a connecting surface and blindsense if the target can be detected by said sense, say a sound based blindsense against a creature that make sounds, so incorporeal would still be undetected by both).

in all of these cases (scent, blindsense and tremorsense) the target's space might be pinpointed, but the target is still at full concealment so at 50% miss chance.

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'blindsight 30 ft' on the other hand would give a line of sight (and regard the creature as being able to 'see' it's target) - again, if it's a valid target in range (so lifesight that is said to work like blindsight but only for living and dead creatures, won't pick up a construct).
in this case a valid target should have no concealment.


Question to shed some more light on your issue..... why does your bear need line of sight?


Mybe to charge?
You can't charge if you lack line of sight to the target.

Although...pretty sure you can't charge or run if blinded anyway.


At best, the bear could move at half speed (or full speed with an acrobatics check) toward the "general direction" of the scent of the target (and the "general direction" is based on the upwind15ft/downwind60ft/no wind30ft rules for scent), and then could pinpoint his square when/if he gets within 5 ft. But yeah, while blinded, you'd have no ability to charge/run, and, you'd have no line of sight or line of effect to any enemy -- everyone is considered having full concealment vs. a blinded creature.

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