I'd like to know if Paizo intends to let a Nanocyte form a major array weapon as part of a charge action. Forming their weapons is the equivilent drawing them and all other classes can go from unarmed to charging with a weapon (if they have the +1 bab) for free. Drawing a weapon is othetwise a move action and forming one is a move action. Drawing a weapon can be turned into a swift action by another ability, forming a weapon can be turned into a swift action by another ability. It seems really unnessisarily punishing for them not to be able to charge like everyone else, especially with them being a front liner. It really looks like an oversight to me and I would be greatful for official communication.
My GM can solve any issues at my table but I really think this should be addressed for Societies sake.
(Please don't read attitude, I mean no harm)
Ah, you actually can't draw a weapon while charging. You can draw a weapon when you take a move action to move your speed with +1 or higher BAB, but Charging is a full action to move twice your speed.
Nanocytes could perhaps use more Knack coverage of "fast draw" style actions, but in this particular case they're in the same boat as everyone else.
You are mistaken my friend. Here is the first paragraph of charge.
"Charging is a full action that allows you to move up to double your speed and make a melee attack at the end of the movement. You can draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1."
Also here is the rules for Drawing.
"Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat or putting it away so that you have a free hand requires a move action. This action includes activating or deactivating the weapon. This also applies to weapon-like objects that are easily accessible, such as remote controls and most tools or sensors you can carry and use with one hand. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, you must instead retrieve it as a stored item before you can use it (see Manipulate an Item below)"
I'd also argue that "This also applies to weapon-like objects that are easily accessible" would clearly apply to a nanocyte array
Grass Ninja wrote: You are mistaken my friend. Here is the first paragraph of charge.
"Charging is a full action that allows you to move up to double your speed and make a melee attack at the end of the movement. You can draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1."
Huh. I should brush up on my Charge rules.
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Inforunately I don't think the 'weapon-like' object bit works for a Nanocyte. You are not simply drawing something, manifesting an item is a specific action which requires a move action. Since you can't combine 'Stand up' with a move action, you can't combine 'Manifest' with a move action
Drawing something is a specific action that requires a move action as well. I don't think a weapon can be any more accessible then one that can form in the user's hand.
I really don't understand your arguments. Why, in a game balance sense, would you take away a BASE maneuver (and a melee one at that) from your new melee guy. It's an arbitrary restriction that screams of oversight.
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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
So, I'm kind of seeing a few different questions with a few different answers, here. It would be best not to treat someone's answer to one of them as though it were an answer to a different one.
1. Can a nanocyte from a weapon while moving or charging?
No. Forming a weapon isn't the specific action that gets a special treatment on the action economy in that way. Pretty open and shut.
2. Would it be broken or unbalanced to allow the nanocyte to form a weapon with the same action economy boost that drawing a weapon gets?
No, that's not going to break a game.
3. If the nanocyte is a melee class, why can't they do the thing other melee characters do? Isn't this obviously an oversight?
It could very well be an oversight, but I couldn't say it definitely is. Charging is a basic action, but honestly not one that comes up that often outside of chracters with special abilities related to it (like making their charge a standard action, and removing the penalties). While it's possible that forming an array on the move was overlooked, it's also possible that using nanite surges to form your array as a swift action, and keeping your gear array formed for more than the one encounter (allowing normal drawing), were expected to be pretty standard.
1. I agree that RaW, it's not allowed. My contention is that, given how rarely people charge, this got overlooked. I've made an uplifted bear, so for my charavter it's relevent, but I don't care about talking about MY guy, my GM can tweak whatever he wants in that respect. But for the class as a whole and more specificly Society play (How i get most of my gaming in, but not this guy) I'd like proper clarification.
2. Glad we're on the same page. 8)
3. Making your array a swift action, via a surge or the 1d4 knack, does not, RaW, allow you to perform a charge. As a full round action, you can not do a swift action with a charge. It also seems very strange to me that they'd want, or even expect, people to keep their weapons out inbetween encounters. That seems antithetical with the classes design.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Oh, I wasn't saying you can do a swift action and charge, specifically. Just that when you need to draw, move and attack (the purpose of charge), using that option may be intended.
If that's intended that is saying that Nanocytes aren't meant to be able to charge at all. I can see no possible way to get weapon in hand to charge with on the opening round (the time when you'd need/want to charge) apart from just openly holding it all the time (which goes against the entire feel of the class).
If you could close the distance needed to engage the enemy with one movements worth of movement you are not (likely) going to charge anyway, as for most Nanocytes, a charge would incure penalties.
Your only options on the opening round are to get into position without your weapons or arm yourself and let the enemy completely control field positioning for the opening.
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anything preventing you from just having the weapon out all the time like other adventurers
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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Nope. That's part of why I'm at "that could be an oversight" not at "that's probably an oversight." Because I would expect that nanocytes having an array already formed in dangerous places to be as common as soldiers already having weapons in their hands (which is to say very common).
At least for Gear Array or Sheath Array. Cloud not being pre-formed seems more likely.
Because that's how the class was designed. Why would a Nanocyte carry around their weapon when not threatened? They'd be using their arrays for all sorts of cool RP stuff. And I'm a big bear that likes to walk around on all 4. 8)
Telling a Nanocyte to carry their weapon is not the same thing as telling any other class to sheath a weapon. To a Nanocyte, putting your weapon away is returning the nanytes to your body. It'd be like playing Wolverene and you have to have your claws out all the time.
HammerJack wrote: Nope. That's part of why I'm at "that could be an oversight" not at "that's probably an oversight." Because I would expect that nanocytes having an array already formed in dangerous places to be as common as soldiers already having weapons in their hands (which is to say very common).
At least for Gear Array or Sheath Array. Cloud not being pre-formed seems more likely.
I mean, if your talking about a situation where everyone is walking around at the ready, then yeah, the Nanocyte's array would be up and you'd be as ready as anyone else. The soldier in the situation wouldn't need to draw either. But I'm specificity referring to the situations in which you'd need to arm yourself at the beginning of a combat.
Grass Ninja wrote: Because that's how the class was designed. Why would a Nanocyte carry around their weapon when not threatened? They'd be using their arrays for all sorts of cool RP stuff. And I'm a big bear that likes to walk around on all 4. 8)
Telling a Nanocyte to carry their weapon is not the same thing as telling any other class to sheath a weapon. To a Nanocyte, putting your weapon away is returning the nanytes to your body. It'd be like playing Wolverene and you have to have your claws out all the time.
I'm pretty sure Wolverine keeps his claws out when he's going door to door in an enemy base and getting into combat after combat, or when he is about to kick in a door. Just like how a soldier would, and therefore a nanocyte as well.
When you're expecting a fight you have your weapon pre-formed, and when you aren't, apparently forming a weapon with your nanites is slightly more difficult to do on the move than draw a weapon.
Maybe the surge should allow you to form a weapon and charge, maybe it shouldn't. It's not a major hangup for me either way.
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