Okay, so Id Ragers have a limited list of Foci available to choose from, right? And Pride is not one of them. Too bad, really, because the Pride Foci has Overwhelming Confidence, which double [yes, DOUBLES] morale bonuses... not unlike the ones you get from Bloodrage. Enter the Dreamthief Rogue, which has unrestricted access to which Emotional Foci they choose, or the Fractured Mind Spiritualist, because it's Charisma-based.
Now, my first question is; has anyone ever actually played either combination in a gestalt game?
Secondly, would it be at all beneficial to use Urban Bloodrager [which stacks with Id Rager] and UnRogue? Go full Dex? Seems possible, although I don't know if it's especially helpful.
Third, what Foci for the Id Rager?
Fourth, could you choose Pride as the Spiritualist, and still benefit from the Fractured Mind stuffs if your Id Rager Foci matched any of the Fractured Mind Emotional Power options?
To expand on the synergy between the Pride Emotional Foci and the Id Rager... Greater Bloodrage kicks in at level 11, and the Pride's Overwhelming Confidence kicks in at level 12... doubling Greater Bloodrage's +6 to a +12!!! A Fighter's Weapon Training doesn't hit +3 until level 13... we get twice that a level early with this combination.
Something like Blooded Arcane Strike makes this +6/+9. And the feat Extreme Mood Swings could push this further, quite a bit further depending on how it applies...
My take on Bloodrage + Extreme Mood Swings + Overwhelming Confidence is that Extreme Mood Swings is always active and "waits" to see what the overall morale bonus is before adding to it. Both the Rogue and Spiritualist would have Pride active all day, so even Overwhelming Confidence "waits" to see what morale bonus it is going to potentially double. All things are "waiting" for the morale bonus from the Id Rager's Bloodrage...
The Id Rager's Bloodrage gives a morale bonus, Overwhelming Confidence doubles it, and Extreme Mood Swings adds to whatever that happens to be... (X×2)+1... or whatever, since the parentheses are pointless, and the +1 could be a +2...
The other question was if Fractured Mind's Emotional Power "upgrades" would still apply to the Id Rager's Emotional Foci, even if the Fractured Mind Spiritualist chose Pride as their Emotional Foci...
Id Rager's Foci list:
Anger
Dedication
Despair
Fear
Hatred
Jealousy
Remorse
Zeal
Fractured Mind Emotional Power list:
Anger
Dedication
Despair
Fear
Hatred
Jealousy
Remorse
Zeal
I see a trend betwix Id Rager and Fractured Mind... but Fractured Mind is not limited to the Foci attached to Emotional Power...
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You might want to re-read the Pride phantom, as there is a hefty downside to Overwhelming Confidence: Source
Occult Realms pg. 15
Resolve: A phantom that has this emotional focus is immune to fear effects. However, when the phantom fails an ability check, skill check, or attack roll, it loses this immunity for 1 hour. Multiple failed checks or rolls are not cumulative. Instead, they simply reset the hour of lost immunity.
...
Overwhelming Confidence (Su): When the spiritualist reaches 12th level, as long as the phantom is immune to fear effects from its resolve ability, any morale bonuses affecting the phantom are doubled. If the phantom loses its immunity to fear, all doubled morale bonuses that are affecting the phantom are instead applied as penalties for the remainder of their duration or until the phantom regains its immunity to fear (whichever comes first).
One poor attack roll, and you might suddenly have issues just standing up (not to mention the sudden loss of HP on a truly massive scale)...
Now, my first question is; has anyone ever actually played either combination in a gestalt game?
Nah, I don't play Gestalt. It is however possible to just dip a level into Dreamthief Rogue to advance two emotional focus through Id Rager.
I have no idea how Fractured Mind Spiritualist is relevant to focus stacking though. It doesn't get any of its phantom's Emotional Focus abilities.
Nevermind the penalties... Pish-Posh. Just don't miss. Lol. The give and take of it makes it fun. Like a Sczarni Swindler flipping a coin to determine their fate, the gamble is literally the whole point... if the possibility of epic failure doesn't add excitement, then play a different class/archetype.
And where does it say that a Fractured Mind doesn't get its Phantom's Emotional Foci abilities?
To my understanding, a Fractured Mind Spiritualist can choose any Foci they want to, and gain that Foci's abilities as normal. If they happen to choose any of the Foci listed in Fractuted Mind's Emotional Power list, they get additional SLA's that replace generic Spiritualist BS... nothing in Fractured Mind replaces actual Phantom abilities, or says you don't get the abilities of a Foci not on the list. So, if you mixed Id Rager Bloodrager and Fractured Mind Spiritualist in gestalt, you could have whatever Foci you choose from the Id Rager, as well as the Pride Foci chosen by the Spiritualist.
My question was if you would still get the Fractured Mind's SLA's associated with your Id Rager Foci, since those lists are identical... the Id Rager's possible choices and the Fractured Mind's Emotional Power, that is. The Foci technically associated with Fractured Mind is Pride, but you will absolutely have a Foci on the Emotional Power list from Id Rager... does that count enough to access the Emotional Power SLA's? Even though that Foci is technically from Id Rager?
And where does it say that a Fractured Mind doesn't get its Phantom's Emotional Foci abilities?
The Fractured Mind character does not, in any way, get the Phantom's Emotional Focus abilities. The Phantom keeps the abilities to itself. The only thing that archetype changes is your casting stat (Wis to Cha) and replacing the SLAs.
AFAIK, the only archetypes that grant you the powers of a phantom is Id Rager, Dreamthief Rogue, and (albeit poorly) Exciter Spiritualist.
Oh, got it. Id Rager and Dreamthief have the whole "considered to be both a phantom and a spiritualist for the purposes of abilities whose effect references both a phantom and a spiritualist" thing going on... but an actual Spiritualist does not. I see what is going on, now.
So, Fractured Mind Spiritualist is out, Dreamthief Rogue is in. Lol.
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Moving on then.
Pride is extremely volatile as any failed skill check ruins the benefit. Even if you go out of your way to intentionally never roll anything outside of combat you can't pass on reactive skill checks. Like perception.
The best way to make use of the Pride focus is to be a Dreamthief 1 / Id Rager 12. When you enter bloodrage you treat your bloodrager level as both spiritualist level and phantom hit dice, which has the unintended consequence of also advancing the Emotional Focus you gained from rogue. This allows you turn Overwhelming Confidence on and off instead of always "suffering" from it.
Effectively, you can ragecycle to avoid the doubled morale penalties. (Though you won't reset the doubled bonus)
As for morale bonuses.
If you make the bloodrager an Id Rager Metamagic Rager Urban Bloodrager with the Ascendant Spell metamagic feat you could cast Mythic Heroism for +4 to all checks, attack rolls, saves, and weapon damage rolls.
Or if you take the Community-Minded trait and Eldritch Heritage (Orc) you can hold the charge on the bloodline SLA to start combat with a bonus to attack, dmg, and will saves equal to [half of your level-1] that lasts 3 rounds. So at level 13 with Overwhelming Confidence active you'd get your +12 to Strength in addition to +10 to attack/dmg/will.
Thank you for typing slowly as you walk me through this, as I cannot read very fast. Lol. I do appreciate the responses, and I feel stupid for not catching that the Spiritualist doesn't get the abilities of the Phantom.
I will combine the Id Rager and Dreamthief Rogue... mess around with stacking Urban Bloodrager and using UnRogue. See if I can come up with something I like. More than likely, this will end up an NPC known for their Extreme Mood Swings. Lol.
A small race could be especially flavorful... Goblins have a feat [Letter Fury] that allows them to Rage when people use big words or fancy writing in their presence. Lol. Not the best race for Charisma-based BS, but whatever. I actually already have a Goblin Pack Rager-True Primitive Barbarian with Letter Fury, which I felt was fitting since True Primitive Barbarians are illiterate. Not that it matters for this discussion.