| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
d) something else
The manipulate water part is meant for effects like Control Water.
You can conjure water with no issue, and the stance appears to conjure water.
You enter a stance of fluid grace as small amounts of water flow with your movements and attacks. You can make flowing wave attacks that deal 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
So when you're making a flowing wave attack you're creating water you're attacking with as well.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
d) something else
The answer is "just ignore it", but for a different reason than c)
The reason is that the water trait only says effects that "manipulate" water require water to be there. Those that conjure water do not require there to be water in the area.
Basically it's just saying if you're trying to move existing water and do X with it, then there kind of needs to be water or you can't do X. Which I mean, fair enough, that should probably be obvious, but I guess they just wanted to be extra clear.
Also, as a side note, I wouldn't read too much into the parts of traits where they say "effects with this trait...", "creatures with this trait..." and "planes with this trait...", as those are typically examples of what causes something to have the trait rather than rules for the trait to give people an idea of what the trait is/means. Pretty much the only actual rules text I see in the water trait is "Those that manipulate water have no effect in an area without water"
Also, as a side note, I wouldn't read too much into the parts of traits where they say "effects with this trait...", "creatures with this trait..." and "planes with this trait...", as those are typically examples of what causes something to have the trait
Yeah, that is how I interpret those types of statements in various trait descriptions - as examples of why this trait would be applied to a particular creature/effect/plane...
The other mechanical effect that the trait causes is interactions with other rules. Like causing the damage from this stance to interact with Elemental Betrayal (though not Elemental Zone because it specifies that only spells interact).
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
1, sure.
2-3 are incorrect. This does not allow using DEX to disarm or trip. That was debated for a fairly long time, but core rulebook errata shut the door on it.
4 is correct.
For #5, those are definitely supposed to be Strikes, and someone messed up.
6 is correct, but the Flurry if Maneuvers feat can change that.
7 is correct.
For #8, there's no interaction at all between the strike the stance gives you and your strike with a monastic weapon.
2-3 are incorrect. This does not allow using DEX to disarm or trip. That was debated for a fairly long time, but core rulebook errata shut the door on it.
Yes. To summarize: The errata clarified that trip, grapple, and other skill-based attack options are still skill checks, not attack rolls. So things that apply to attack rolls do not apply to the skill checks even when those skill checks are done as part of an attack.
It makes putting Trip and Disarm and such on a hand-based unarmed attack somewhat silly since the trait effectively does nothing. On a weapon (or non-hand unarmed attack like a bite attack), the trait means that you can use those attacks with the weapon and don't need to have another hand free. But for an unarmed attack, that hand is still considered free, so...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The traits DO allow the bonus from handwraps. They just don't allow you to use dex for maneuvers.
The traits DO allow the bonus from handwraps. They just don't allow you to use dex for maneuvers.
Hmm... Not sure how you are coming to that conclusion.
The errata in question is
Page 446: Attack Rolls. There was some confusion as to whether skill checks with the attack trait (such as Grapple or Trip) are also attack rolls at the same time. They are not. To make this clear, add this sentence to the beginning of the definition of attack roll "When you use a Strike action or make a spell attack, you attempt a check called an attack roll."To clarify the different rules elements involved:
An attack is any check that has the attack trait. It applies and increases the multiple attack penalty.
An attack roll is one of the core types of checks in the game (along with saving throws, skill checks, and Perception checks). They are used for Strikes and spell attacks, and traditionally target Armor Class.
Some skill actions have the attack trait, specifically Athletics actions such as Grapple and Trip. You still make a skill check with these skills, not an attack roll.
The multiple attack penalty applies on those skill actions as well. As it says later on in the definition of attack roll "Striking multiple times in a turn has diminishing returns. The multiple attack penalty (detailed on page 446) applies to each attack after the first, whether those attacks are Strikes, special attacks like the Grapple action of the Athletics skill, or spell attack rolls." There is inaccurate language in the Multiple Attack Penalty section implying it applies only to attack rolls that will be receiving errata.
Handwraps and the Weapon Potency runes that they emulate only apply their item bonus to Attack Rolls. Which a trip or grapple check is not.
------
Though in thinking of things for an hour or so, I did realize that the maneuver traits do actually do something. Because all unarmed attacks that don't specify a particular part of the body don't take up a hand. So you could use your feet or a headbutt do to a Flowing Wave Strike even with your hands full and still be able to do trip or disarm actions with it.
The traits DO allow the bonus from handwraps. They just don't allow you to use dex for maneuvers.Hmm... Not sure how you are coming to that conclusion.
Hah. I found it. Buried in the Disarm (and I am assuming the other maneuver) weapon traits. It says that it grabs the item bonus from the weapon used as an item bonus to the skill check.
I wouldn't exactly call that buried. Without the rules in the weapon trait the trait is meaningless. You kind of have to go to the trait to figure out how it works.
I wouldn't exactly call that buried. Without the rules in the weapon trait the trait is meaningless. You kind of have to go to the trait to figure out how it works.
That's fair. Mostly it took me a while to find it because I am multitasking at the moment. Also it isn't something that I or other players I play with are currently using, so I don't have all of the rule details in memory.
