Are summons summoned with their magical weapons?

[dicehound]

When you summon a monster (e.g. using Summon Monster), and its statblock lists magical weapons or other equipment, does it get summoned with that equipment?

For example, if I cast Summon Monster V, I can summon a Bralani Azata. The statblock for it lists a +1 scimitar and +1 composite longbow.

Do those come included with the summon? Can I order the Azata to give me its weapons so I can use them instead? If I can summon it for long enough, can I go off and sell said weapons to someone before they disappear?

Text of Summon Monster I for reference:

Summon Monster I wrote:

This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane). It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. The spell conjures one of the creatures from the 1st Level list on Table: Summon Monster. You choose which kind of creature to summon, and you can choose a different one each time you cast the spell.

A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them. Creatures summoned using this spell cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components (such as wish).

When you use a summoning spell to summon a creature with an alignment or elemental subtype, it is a spell of that type. Creatures on Table: Summon Monster marked with an “*” are summoned with the celestial template, if you are good, and the fiendish template, if you are evil. If you are neutral, you may choose which template to apply to the creature. Creatures marked with an “*” always have an alignment that matches yours, regardless of their usual alignment. Summoning these creatures makes the summoning spell’s type match your alignment.

The summon monster spells have numerous entries representing creatures that are summoned from the Outer Planes, and thus have the celestial or fiendish template or can be summoned with the entropic or resolute template (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2, pages 292 and 293, respectively).

[Belafon]

I could have sworn there was an actual line somewhere in the books saying something similar to the following, but I can't find it now.

With the usual "James Jacobs is not an official rules source" caveat:

James Jacobs wrote:

5) Summoned creatures are very different. The actual summoned creature itself has no existence before or after the summon monster/summon nature's ally spell is cast, and thus any items it's equipped with have nowhere to come from and nowhere to go. If a summoned monster is a creature that, in its actual stat block, has gear, that gear is with the monster when it arrives, but vanishes as soon as the monster or spell effect is slain/ends. And any additional gear given to a summoned monster drops to the ground as soon as the spell ends or the summoned monster is defeated.

Yes, all summons come with full gear. Yes, they can give that gear to someone else to use. But as soon as the spell ends they (and everything that came with them) goes away.

If you can summon it "for long enough" you could sell the weapons. But most smiths aren't going to buy an expensive weapon from a stranger within 5 minutes of meeting them. And doing this would have significant repercussions. You would probably be arrested the next time you showed up in town.

[Azothath]

dicehound wrote:

When you summon a monster (e.g. using Summon Monster), and its statblock lists magical weapons or other equipment, does it get summoned with that equipment?

For example, if I cast Summon Monster V, I can summon a Bralani Azata. The statblock for it lists a +1 scimitar and +1 composite longbow.

Do those come included with the summon? Can I order the Azata to give me its weapons so I can use them instead? If I can summon it for long enough, can I go off and sell said weapons to someone before they disappear? ...

Summon Monster I

Summoned creatures arrive with their standard equipment.
If the caster can speak their summoned creature's language they can direct it to give them its weapons and if the summon's has a friendly to helpful attitude it will do so.

Hopefully the caster has proficiency with the items and the items disappear when the spell duration ends or the spell is dismissed/dispelled.
Selling the item is a more complicated matter and takes time. It is very likely that a detect magic/identify used to verify the item will reveal the ruse.
Advice:
It the realm of schemes to make money via low level spells; Hypnotism:1, Reinforce Armaments:1, Masterwork Transformation:2.

[Diego Rossi]

Azothath wrote:

dicehound wrote:

When you summon a monster (e.g. using Summon Monster), and its statblock lists magical weapons or other equipment, does it get summoned with that equipment?

For example, if I cast Summon Monster V, I can summon a Bralani Azata. The statblock for it lists a +1 scimitar and +1 composite longbow.

Do those come included with the summon? Can I order the Azata to give me its weapons so I can use them instead? If I can summon it for long enough, can I go off and sell said weapons to someone before they disappear? ...

Summon Monster I

Summoned creatures arrive with their standard equipment.
If the caster can speak their summoned creature's language they can direct it to give them its weapons and if the summon's has a friendly to helpful attitude it will do so.
Hopefully the caster has proficiency with the items and the items disappear when the spell duration ends or the spell is dismissed/dispelled.
Selling the item is a more complicated matter and takes time. It is very likely that a detect magic/identify used to verify the item will reveal the ruse.

A Summoned creature is under your control, so, if you can communicate, you can order it to give you its equipment. But, barring the ability of some classes and archetypes, the items will last only a few rounds.

I doubt most sales will be completed that fast.
A Conjured creature equipment will last longer, possibly even forever, depending on the spell used to call the creature. But generally Conjured creatures have more freedom on how they act, so getting access to their equipment will be more complicated.

[zza ni]

Never buy magical items from an anti paladin...it might belong to his fiendish boon

[dicehound]

Thanks for the answers, all. This question is mostly because summoning becomes highly exploitable on planes with the Timeless quality (see Create Greater Demiplane), since summons last forever there. So you could start a magic item selling business by just summoning a whole bunch of creatures in a private demiplane and selling their items. (God help you if someone dispels the demiplane or something though.)

[zza ni]

stuff stopped in a timeless plane occur retroactively once left. so unless you sell the items in the demiplane i don't see a problem.

id treat the items a summon carry separately, if you can separate them from the creature then the magic that hold them effect them separately. like when you summon 1d3 lesser summons. if one left the plane the timer would occur retroactively only for it.

also can't you just make a demi-plane where gold is as common as dirt? (AKA 'Prince's of Amber get rich plan')

in games i GM this never rise as the gods smite anyone who try to develop a spell that work like create demi-plane or such. mostly out of spite of being infringed of their powers.

[zza ni]

on the other hand a level 11 anti-paladin with the 'Tyrant' archtype that is lawful instead of chaotic can try and sell his Erinye's +1 longsword and +1 flaming composite longbow and then send her home after enough time pass to not make it obvious. (hell if he plan on 'upgrading' to the next creature list at level 13 it would almost be asked for him to do so)

[Belafon]

zza ni wrote:

on the other hand a level 11 anti-paladin with the 'Tyrant' archtype that is lawful instead of chaotic can try and sell his Erinye's +1 longsword and +1 flaming composite longbow and then send her home after enough time pass to not make it obvious. (hell if he plan on 'upgrading' to the next creature list at level 13 it would almost be asked for him to do so)

My first thought was "would he, though? If he's lawful?" Then I went back and reread the archetype. Particularly the bits about respecting authority but twisting its loopholes for his own ends.

"What I said, officer, was - verbatim - 'I want to sell you this +1 longsword for 1157 gp.' The smith inspected it and agreed that it was a good weapon. I never said anything about the sword being a permanent item. He never asked if the weapon was summoned. If he had, I would of course have told him that it was. He asked if the weapon was stolen and I honestly replied that it was not."

Probably wouldn't actually work on the authorities, and of course he's not going to be welcome in town after he pulls this stunt. Also makes me think that a fantasy society that functioned similarly to ours would have an insanely long list of laws. We have laws that say you can't knowingly sell stolen goods. Imagine if you had to add in "can't knowingly sell summoned goods." "Can't knowingly sell illusory goods." Can't knowingly sell cursed goods." etc. etc.