Pretty straightforward question on this one: if a character were to receive an Kinetic Blast or Elemental Focus from two sources (in this case lets say vanilla Kineticist and Water Dancer) would those two stack? Or is it the situation of Channel, where you have two seperate pools instead?
Furthermore how would this interact with the premise of Composite Blasts? Would you gain access to the ones you qualify for earlier than just vanilla Kineticist?
Haven't found anything regarding this as usually you don't dip into or out of Kineticist, but when introducing optional/homebrew rules sets like gestalt, it becomes a more valid question.
|
Pretty straightforward question on this one: if a character were to receive an Kinetic Blast or Elemental Focus from two sources (in this case lets say vanilla Kineticist and Water Dancer) would those two stack? Or is it the situation of Channel, where you have two seperate pools instead?
Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character’s level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class.
Abilities from different classes that stack tell you that they stack.
So it's different "pools", but there's a lot of weird case-by-case interactions where one class's abilities will affect both classes even though they aren't technically "stacking". For example the Water Dancer does not get the Gather Power class feature. But the kineticist Gather Power class feature applies to "a blast wild talent" not "a kineticist blast wild talent" so you could use it with the monk's blast. Similar to how a multiclass sorcerer with the draconic bloodline increases the damage of all spells that match their energy type, not just sorcerer spells.
The big drag is that the class levels wouldn't stack for determining the damage of your blasts, effectiveness of defenses, what level utility talents you can take, etc.
Furthermore how would this interact with the premise of Composite Blasts? Would you gain access to the ones you qualify for earlier than just vanilla Kineticist?
You wouldn't get them earlier. You don't get composite blasts until you get the Expanded Element class feature.
Composite blasts combine elements to form a new blast. When a kineticist gains a new element through expanded element, she gains access to all composite blasts for which she qualifies.
Actually it isn’t quite like channel energy… the channel energy FAQ even calls out a similar such ability… the reason why channel energy from different sources typically doesn’t stack and is instead treated as separate pools is because each source of channel has its own scaling rules. They don’t act “as the clerics channel energy treating your levels in X as cleric levels”.
In this case if you had levels in kineticist and levels in water dancer monk your levels would stack for your kinetic blast. It is just like animal companions.
|
|
Actually it isn’t quite like channel energy… the channel energy FAQ even calls out a similar such ability… the reason why channel energy from different sources typically doesn’t stack and is instead treated as separate pools is because each source of channel has its own scaling rules. They don’t act “as the clerics channel energy treating your levels in X as cleric levels”.
In this case if you had levels in kineticist and levels in water dancer monk your levels would stack for your kinetic blast. It is just like animal companions.
Chell, I don't think you are reading that FAQ correctly.
Channel Energy: If I have this ability from more than one class, do they stack?
No—unless an ability specifically says it stacks with similar abilities (such as an assassin's sneak attack), or adds in some way based on the character's total class levels (such as improved uncanny dodge), the abilities don't stack and you have to use them separately.
The abilities have to say they stack or be based on total character level, not class level. Animal Companions (usually) stack because the druid nature bond ability specifically says
If a character receives an animal companion from more than one source, her effective druid levels stack for the purposes of determining the statistics and abilities of the companion.
...
I'm inclined to agree with Belafon's answer here. Essentially I was just asking the initial question for absolutely certainty on RAW for this, as I was already aware of the Channel FAQ and ability stacking (or lack thereof.)
Technically speaking, because of the Channel FAQ, even Unarmed Strike progression doesn't stack from different sources. It's a weird interaction, but I guess I can understand from a logical standpoint that a Brawler, Monk, Brawling Blademaster Samurai, etc, all might fight with fists, but have different style to it that doesn't mesh with the style of a different class.
I'll run off the assumption, logically and as per rules, that the two interact in the way that they are two different styles of producing a Kinetic Blast, but share abilities that would alter blasts, like Infusions and Gather Power where appropriate.
I find it interesting that both the water dancer monk and the havocker witch both state that their respective levels are treated as “effective Kineticist levels”, the havoker even going so far as requiring that levels in any other class she possesses that grants elemental focus match that of her havocker elemental focus. While neither class specifically states that their levels stack for the purposes of determining the power of their elemental focus abilities an argument could be made that effective levels should stack since many abilities that grant “effective levels” do stack such as effective Druid and Wizard levels stacking for animal companion and familiar abilities respectively. Not necessarily RAW just a point to consider.
Yeah, I am in agreement that they don't stack by RAW. However, I am a lot more lenient as a GM on this issue. I allow the levels to stack to determine damage, DC, and the effects of any wild talents/infusions that the character might already have. You aren't getting composite blasts unless you are explicitly a level 7 (or higher) Kineticist.
Well you could apply the limitations of one class to the other as it doesn’t specify “monk” kinetic blast only kinetic blast. As written it should apply to both. But like I said it’s not RAW just a point to consider. I think you could easily house rule that the levels stack for only those class features that both classes possess ( for this I would also include that the elemental focus of both classes match).
How can you stack something that has different limitations? It is a different thing.
Because my imagination isn't limited by the fuzzy edges of the rules. I have enough awareness of the entire ruleset to easily figure out a solution to the issue based on countless examples already in place. The ability is fundamentally the same except for that restriction.
So, how do allow it to stack? By applying the strictest limitation to the combined ability as a whole. If they want to be armored or encumbered, they don't get the stacking.