Wellspring Mage Chatter (Also Kind Of A Guide / Breakdown I Guess?)


Advice


1 person marked this as a favorite.

There's been no dedicated thread that I found, at least not one using the official name. And I'm curious: what do people make of this thing? Any actual experience this early after release?

I wasn't expecting to be that into it compared to the other class archetypes, but a Life Oracle of mine is perfect for it thematically, so I'm switching her over to it from Medic soon. (Medic seems like a great alternative for what I'm doing, but another character of mine is already using it...and another used it before that. I really do play that many healers.)

For basics, it's a Rare class archetype for spontaneous casters (though bound to be popular outside PFS, like the Cathartic Mage archetype), and you lose a spell slot at every spell level (at odd levels, not even levels like Flexible Caster), but every time you enter a non-Trivial combat encounter it's a 25% chance to cause a surge, 50% chance to get a random 1st/2nd/3rd highest slot back (to use in 3 rounds), and 25% chance to get any level of slot you want back (to use in 1 minute). You can also make this roll in other high-stress situations, in case you're not just in fights all day. If you don't have a missing slot to temporarily recover, nothing happens, but if you have fewer than 3 spell levels it adjusts for that.

There's a restriction on the slots you can get back at Lv 1, probably to keep from getting too much over a standard caster. Afterwards, it slowly becomes an overall trade of consistent all-level slots for potentially more high-level ones, if you trigger enough rolls. Most conversation I've seen has interpreted this as the archetype getting more and more worthwhile the more encounters you have in a day, but besides the "high-stress" clause, I've also seen little to no discussion of Urgent Upwelling, a Lv 6 feat (just before you would start theoretically losing slots you almost definitely won't get back) for a reaction that lets you roll when you're crit, crit fail a save, or are brought to 0 HP (once per 10 minutes). Naturally, these happen more in really tough fights, and there tend to be fewer of those in a day, and casters kinda do better with fewer encounters to throw their stuff at in general. So I'm not sure it'll be as one-dimensional a value as more betterness for more encounters (though it should be emphasized, this archetype offers an unusual amount of sustain for a not-unlucky caster).

As for the surge effects themselves, there are 4 self-harmful effects, 4 mixed-harmful effects, 5 neutral(?) effects, 3 mixed-helpful effects and 1(one) self-helpful effect. It is largely a bad or neutral thing to generate a surge, though the mixed effects can depend based on where you're positioned. (You are the point of origin and you aren't immune to their effects, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily centered on you. There isn't much said about how GMs should determine where exactly they go when there isn't some entity responsible for your wellspring, just that you have no control over how they manifest.) There is a Lv 4 feat called Wellspring Control to roll twice and pick the result you want, though, which probably helps a lot. Surges are more a wacky side-effect mechanism to getting more slots back than a desirable thing in themselves, at least mechanically, but they can still probably be helpful in some ways when sorta controlled like this. Or at least less rough. You can't control the optional crit effect of Urgent Upwelling (the enemy generates a surge on themself) or the success effect of Interfering Surge (same, we'll get to it later), though.

The archetype has some additional feats later on as well, mostly some fitting Sorcerer stuff and mostly decent as well. (Unfortunately, rather than Overwhelming Energy they threw in Oracle's Surging Might which is cool but barely ever comes up by default, so it's not perfect. Can't fault them, though, the name is fitting and it theoretically throws a bone to the Divine damage types.) As a nice bonus, most of the feats are at their original level, too! Energetic Resonance 8, Spell Relay 8, Surging Might 10, Scintillating Spell 16, Echoing Spell 18.

The final unique feat (though I feel like both the Lv 4 and Lv 6 are shoe-ins if you want to really commit to it) is a ways in at Lv 12. Interfering Surge is, as far as I can tell, pretty much the most permissive counterspell feat in the game. Seriously. Counterspell, Wizard's Clever upgrade and PFS Spellmaster's "Master's" version require you to have the same spell either prepared/in repertoire or in your spellbook (for Clever), and Runelord's School Counterspell requires the same school as your specialization (also very nice, by the way), but Interfering Surge lets you counter literally any spell that can be countered, with caveats: if you have the same spell it's just like normal Counterspell, if it's from your magical tradition you take -2 to the check, and if it's anything else you take -5. Not at all insignificant numbers, but there's another layer of risk-reward: if you're successful you cause the caster to generate a surge, and if you fail you generate one yourself. I don't think there's much else in the game that lets you try to counteract whatever you want, and the already-swingy effect gets even swingier with the addition of a surge, so it seems worthwhile to hold onto one's Hero Points for. (Speaking of which, the flat check to get slots back might be able to be rerolled in specific ways, too. I haven't looked into it.)

All very lofty and all, but my character's Lv 2, so what does that mean for me? I've got 3 1st Lv spells, 2 1st Lv spell slots, and some neat focus spells and decent cantrips for sustain, and I should probably look into some sort of long-lasting buff, social spell, or other use for an early slot expenditure, so that when encounters or other stressful things pop up, I can potentially get the slots back immediately and use them to make the fight easier. If not, I can just wait for after the first encounter, where a spell will probably be used anyhow, and as I gain a few more spell levels I'll have more chances to get good uses for early spells in exchange for a higher chance to miss a slot recovery if I don't vary the spell levels I use. A little risky, perhaps a little fiddly, but both cool and offering a good chance at a lot of sustain once you have empty slots in your top 3 levels.

Summoners can take this archetype, by the way, and thus get a lot more back from it with a lower chance to miss a slot recovery, in exchange for cutting down their already-slim portfolio to only being guaranteed two spells a day. Sorcerers also have more of a buffer in their slots since they have more than usual. I kinda feel like there's no wrong chassis to use it on, honestly, it's just the dynamics that change, and it seems more valuable if you're comfy with the stuff you do for sustain, to me. I suppose we'll see how that holds up in my case when I actually get to try it soon.

That's all I've got, what are your impressions?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It was mentioned in another place that given the 75% chance, you usually need about 5 Wellspring triggers (non-trivial combat encounter, high-stress situation, or Urgent Upwelling) in a day to have an average chance of regaining more than 3 spells. From there I figured that you'd need 2-3 or 3-4 while you only have 1 or 2 spell levels. And of course, this can vary based on how much you usually conserve your resources anyway — I don't think it's *that* grim if you have only one or two encounter-triggers in a day, but it certainly still helps to have more.

It was also mentioned that you can take the chance of a harmful surge effect down to roughly 1/6 with Wellspring Control, and even less if you have a helpful "patron" behind the wellspring targeting its effects for you. (I still don't really know how GMs are expected to decide where the effects go without such a patron, and I don't know what the clause about spells with durations is really saying.)

There was agreement that Intervening Surge is really good, but not necessarily a reason to pick up the whole thing all on its own (enjoyment of the gameplay style and how much return you're likely to get matter more), and someone else mentioned Mage Armor being a good fit for pre-using a spell slot. (The money saved can go to other items for spells!) So there's all that to chew on, as well.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It's seems massively awesome on the summoner though.


Summoners can definitely take good advantage of it!

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Advice / Wellspring Mage Chatter (Also Kind Of A Guide / Breakdown I Guess?) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.