| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pretty good guide! One piece of feedback I'd give is that the best ancestry to represent Piccolo is the leshy, since Namekians are part-plant.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Any flaws with it (i.e. I tell people to do things that aren't allowed, etc.)
I didn't see anything glaringly wrong when I read through it.
One thing that you might point out that doesn't work (at least not RAW) is taking Adopted Ancestry to a flying class like Strix in order to get the ability to fly. Because they fly with wings, you need to be born with the wings in order to take those ancestry feats. You don't mention it as an option, but you also don't call it out as not working.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Woah woah woah, isn't Piccolo a Demon from the Demon tribe?
:D
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Woah woah woah, isn't Piccolo a Demon from the Demon tribe?
:D
“Awwww man! I liked it better when I was a demon!”
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I know you say regardless, but Leshy Slyg Beastkin solves the conundrum!
I, uh, I don't know what that means.
One thing that you might point out that doesn't work (at least not RAW) is taking Adopted Ancestry to a flying class like Strix in order to get the ability to fly. Because they fly with wings, you need to be born with the wings in order to take those ancestry feats. You don't mention it as an option, but you also don't call it out as not working.
I can add in that tidbit.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If we thing something is part plant and part slug, they ca be represented by a Leshy with the Beastkin (slug) heritage.I know you say regardless, but Leshy Slyg Beastkin solves the conundrum!I, uh, I don't know what that means.
One thing that you might point out that doesn't work (at least not RAW) is taking Adopted Ancestry to a flying class like Strix in order to get the ability to fly. Because they fly with wings, you need to be born with the wings in order to take those ancestry feats. You don't mention it as an option, but you also don't call it out as not working.I can add in that tidbit.
Ah, I see, but . . . then they wouldn't get permanent flight so . . . .?
Good to have some free Beta guide stuff to being DBZ in PF2e out there. ;)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I see no mention of ki form, the super saiyan monk focus spell. CTRL-F'ed through the doc. Am I missing it, or are you unaware of it? Because it is the most DBZ feat of all. It isn't until level 18 but it is the ultimate cap stone for this theme.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I see no mention of ki form, the super saiyan monk focus spell. CTRL-F'ed through the doc. Am I missing it, or are you unaware of it? Because it is the most DBZ feat of all. It isn't until level 18 but it is the ultimate cap stone for this theme.
The guide was to focus on making a DBZ-style character using the new spells from ultimate magic. I am aware of Ki form (but thank you for reminding me) and I'll be adding a bit about it when I eventually get to writing part 5 (tips and tricks for playing DBZ style characters.) I'll also be adding other things there, like suggestions for the free archetyping rules presented in the core rulebook and others.
Remember, the guide still is in Beta.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not entirely relevant to the guide, but fun fact: Chiaotzu is based on a jiang-shi, otherwise known as the Chinese hopping vampire. That would easily make him a Dhamphir with the Ru-Shi feat.
Otherwise, looking forward to seeing this guide further develop. I'm glad you acknowledge that there's both martial combat and straight-up magic in the world of DBZ.
EDIT: Just a general heads-up on copyright, because it's helpful to bring up every now and then: Simply giving credit to the artist for a couple of those images may not be enough unless the artist explicitly has a license on those photos where they say that credit is enough. Any other use of images must come with strong commenting and criticism. Simple visual reference or fun header is not enough for fair use.
I mainly bring it up not to call you out, but to use the excuse to spread copyright education. Especially in the wake of the Pokemon 5E project being nuked just a few months ago because they didn't listen to similar attempts at education.
Are the copyright holders of the images likely to try and nuke this one random Google Doc? No, of course not. Just given that we generally get to have so many great things from Paizo due to their use of the OGL and their own community use rules, it makes sense to generally have a healthy respect for copyright.
P.S.: "No copyright intended" is not a magic incantation to ward off lawyers either, despite what people seem to think for some reason, just to get ahead of that, lol.
|
|
Not entirely relevant to the guide, but fun fact: Chiaotzu is based on a jiang-shi, otherwise known as the Chinese hopping vampire. That would easily make him a Dhamphir with the Ru-Shi feat.
Otherwise, looking forward to seeing this guide further develop. I'm glad you acknowledge that there's both martial combat and straight-up magic in the world of DBZ.
A lot of people say that, but I recall reading somewhere that one of the mythical paths to immortality in ancient China was to create a kind of spirit guardian in the shape of a white porcelain doll. Considering Chiaotzu is always paired with Tien, a three-eyed martial artist (which also has connections to Chinese immortality) I always assumed that’s where Toriyama borrowed from, though Incould be wrong.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A lot of people say that, but I recall reading somewhere that one of the mythical paths to immortality in ancient China was to create a kind of spirit guardian in the shape of a white porcelain doll. Considering Chiaotzu is always paired with Tien, a three-eyed martial artist (which also has connections to Chinese immortality) I always assumed that’s where Toriyama borrowed from, though Incould be wrong.Not entirely relevant to the guide, but fun fact: Chiaotzu is based on a jiang-shi, otherwise known as the Chinese hopping vampire. That would easily make him a Dhamphir with the Ru-Shi feat.
Otherwise, looking forward to seeing this guide further develop. I'm glad you acknowledge that there's both martial combat and straight-up magic in the world of DBZ.
While true, I think we can get more specific than that. In this case, the large amount of similarities are the reason why people are saying that. Plus, around the time the character premiered, China was going through its own vampire movie craze, but with their jiang-shis, so multiple things line up there.
If there is another possible inspiration, it would more likely be the same source as the rest of Dragonball: Journey to the West. In that story, there are two Chinese deities that show up that are worth mentioning who both fought Sun Wukong:
1. Erlang Shen, one of the greatest god warriors who has a third all-seeing eye.
2. Nezha, who is depicted as being either quite small or straight-up boyish (don't remember) and with fully white skin.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A lot of people say that, but I recall reading somewhere that one of the mythical paths to immortality in ancient China was to create a kind of spirit guardian in the shape of a white porcelain doll. Considering Chiaotzu is always paired with Tien, a three-eyed martial artist (which also has connections to Chinese immortality) I always assumed that’s where Toriyama borrowed from, though Incould be wrong.Not entirely relevant to the guide, but fun fact: Chiaotzu is based on a jiang-shi, otherwise known as the Chinese hopping vampire. That would easily make him a Dhamphir with the Ru-Shi feat.
Otherwise, looking forward to seeing this guide further develop. I'm glad you acknowledge that there's both martial combat and straight-up magic in the world of DBZ.
While true, I think we can get more specific than that. In this case, the large amount of similarities are the reason why people are saying that. Plus, around the time the character premiered, China was going through its own vampire movie craze, but with their jiang-shis, so multiple things line up there.
If there is another possible inspiration, it would more likely be the same source as the rest of Dragonball: Journey to the West. In that story, there are two Chinese deities that show up that are worth mentioning who both fought Sun Wukong:
1. Erlang Shen, one of the greatest god warriors who has a third all-seeing eye.
2. Nezha, who is depicted as being either quite small or straight-up boyish (don't remember) and with fully white skin.
Considering that Dragonball started off as a journey to the west parody (Goku IS the Japanese name for Sun Wukong) I think that one more likely. I also expanded the legal thing which, probably won’t stop people from suing me into oblivion if they want to, but at least it gives them an avenue to ask first.
What are your thoughts on replicating a DBZ character via the Summoner Class? Eidolons, through their evolution feats & the Summoner spells, can get abilities like flight and energy blasts, and it's not like team duos are unheard of in Dragon Ball. Young Goku + Bulma, Tenshinhan + Chaozu, any one of the guys who fought Freeza + Dende, Babidi & Majin Buu...
|
|
What are your thoughts on replicating a DBZ character via the Summoner Class? Eidolons, through their evolution feats & the Summoner spells, can get abilities like flight and energy blasts, and it's not like team duos are unheard of in Dragon Ball. Young Goku + Bulma, Tenshinhan + Chaozu, any one of the guys who fought Freeza + Dende, Babidi & Majin Buu...
If you look at the top of the page, just under the DBZ logo, you will see ‘yet to come, summoner build.’
|
|
In the Build 2-A section, you mention not taking crane stance or mountain stance because the lock you out of spell attacks. Crane stance and mountain stance only prevent you from making other Strikes. Most spell attacks aren't tied to the Strike action, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks for the catch. Fixed that.
ALSO! I added a Section 3-C for playing a summoner build! It's not as detailed as the others for reasons that I get into in the guide, but go check it out!
Pretty good. One thing to note is that any innate spells an Eidolon can get via evolution feats are cast using the Summoner’s Spellcasting proficiencies (since the Eidolon doesn’t have those), which means the spellcasting feats aren’t a bad pick for them.
I’d personally still pick the Ranged Attack evolution to represent Ki blasts myself, since it’s more flexible when considering how you want to divvy up actions with your Eidolon via Act Together.
|
|
Pretty good. One thing to note is that any innate spells an Eidolon can get via evolution feats are cast using the Summoner’s Spellcasting proficiencies (since the Eidolon doesn’t have those), which means the spellcasting feats aren’t a bad pick for them.
I’d personally still pick the Ranged Attack evolution to represent Ki blasts myself, since it’s more flexible when considering how you want to divvy up actions with your Eidolon via Act Together.
I’d love for that to be be case, and it may even be RAI, but it specifically says the Eidolon gets spells as ‘innate spells’
You're always trained in spell attack rolls and spell DCs for your innate spells, even if you aren't otherwise trained in spell attack rolls or spell DCs. If your proficiency in spell attack rolls or spell DCs is expert or better, apply that proficiency to your innate spells, too. You use your Charisma modifier as your spellcasting ability modifier for innate spells unless otherwise specified.
Since the book mentions nothing about increasing their proficiency that I found, it reverts back to the basic ‘trained.’ RAW. We may get an erata on this but until then, I’m forced to go with RAW.
There actually is information about this in the book.
Source Secrets of Magic pg. 58
An eidolon normally can't Cast a Spell; however, some feats or abilities can grant it this capability. An eidolon that has spells also gains the Cast a Spell activity. It doesn't have its own spell DC or spell attack modifier; if it needs to Cast a Spell, it uses your spell DC and spell attack modifier. If you have eidolon link spells, your eidolon shares your focus pool to cast them, though it can't Refocus. Your eidolon can cast only spells that it gains from its own abilities. It can't cast your spells, nor can you cast spells it has.
|
|
There actually is information about this in the book.
Source Secrets of Magic pg. 58
An eidolon normally can't Cast a Spell; however, some feats or abilities can grant it this capability. An eidolon that has spells also gains the Cast a Spell activity. It doesn't have its own spell DC or spell attack modifier; if it needs to Cast a Spell, it uses your spell DC and spell attack modifier. If you have eidolon link spells, your eidolon shares your focus pool to cast them, though it can't Refocus. Your eidolon can cast only spells that it gains from its own abilities. It can't cast your spells, nor can you cast spells it has.
Well OF COURSE they don’t put that information in the spellcaster’s base list of abilities (say, listed under their eidolon entry or spellcasting entry, or the entry for feats that give them spellcasting). . . That would be too easy! And l mean, Eidolons don’t have spellcasting DCs and proficiency EXCEPT THEY EXPRESSLY DO BY THE RULES OF INNATE SPELLS. THANKS PAIZO!
*grumble grumble I’ll fix it grumble grumble*
There actually is information about this in the book.
Source Secrets of Magic pg. 58
An eidolon normally can't Cast a Spell; however, some feats or abilities can grant it this capability. An eidolon that has spells also gains the Cast a Spell activity. It doesn't have its own spell DC or spell attack modifier; if it needs to Cast a Spell, it uses your spell DC and spell attack modifier. If you have eidolon link spells, your eidolon shares your focus pool to cast them, though it can't Refocus. Your eidolon can cast only spells that it gains from its own abilities. It can't cast your spells, nor can you cast spells it has.
Well OF COURSE they don’t put that information in the spellcaster’s base list of abilities (say, listed under their eidolon entry or spellcasting entry, or the entry for feats that give them spellcasting). . . That would be too easy! And l mean, Eidolons don’t have spellcasting DCs and proficiency EXCEPT THEY EXPRESSLY DO BY THE RULES OF INNATE SPELLS. THANKS PAIZO!
*grumble grumble I’ll fix it grumble grumble*
I agree that it probably would have been clearer if they hadn’t been calling the spells that Eidolons get from their evolution feats “innate spells”.
I just realized that a Summoner is one of the best ways to represent the link between Piccolo & Kami in early DBZ. One is more skilled in magic and the other in combat, but if one dies they both die.