Conversations WITH the Bedpost: Necromantic Druidry

[Sysryke]

My husband put a question out on my gaming group's chat yesterday asking, "if one took levels in necromancer and druid, could you talk to wooden furniture? And further, in a city, wouldn't you have plenty of materials for raise dead?"

At first I thought, "ha ha, funny joke!" He was serious though, and didn't know about the necro archetype for druids. I thought about it a bit, and realized I don't know too much about the possibilities. So I bring it to you all. Are these things possible? How might one go about building it? If you just want to talk to the wooden stuff, is the necro necessary? If you really want undead wooden things, is it doable?

All advice welcome, 3pp is fine, rules appreciated. This should probably also be on the rules sub forum, but I have yet to figure out how to make a singular dual category thread. Thanks in advance.

[VoodistMonk]

Well, to my knowledge, the easiest "necromancer" Druid is the Blight Druid archetype with the Death Domain, and the Shades of the Uskwood feat. From there, take all 5 levels of Agent of the Grave, and you have yourself a Druidic necromancer... a pretty decent one, at that.

I gave my version of that build, Nugrah the Decrepit, the Fey Spell Lore for another splat of spells to add to the Druid list. And he drank Ghost Syrup before becoming a Lich... an incorporeal Druidic necromancer Lich. Lol.

Can he talk to furniture? Hmm, I don't think so. Somewhere along the Whispering Way, his priorities changed... sacrifices had to be made [many, oh so many, sacrifices were made], some of the more basic Druid things have been simply forgotten... replaced with knowledge from beyond the grave.

Maybe talk to a Gathlain or a Leshy... they might be able to speak to chairs [lord knows I can sure make them into chairs].

[avr]

Going by the rules, trees aren't usually creatures and wooden constructions certainly aren't an intact corpse. Making undead from them is going to be hard. If you can get animate objects that might have the feel you're after, or create greater undead (shadow) perhaps.

If you just want to talk to objects that seems more possible. Also generally psychic rather than druidic magic (object reading, maybe object possession), tho' there's a slightly psychic druid archetype (supernaturalist) and a slightly druidic psychic archetype (Magaambyan telepath).

[Sysryke]

Thanks for the replies so far. I got booted off the computer before I could finish a reply/post yesterday.

I definitely agree with avr's assessment.

What I'm wondering now, is what about a druid's ability (via spells or alternate features) to commune with or speak with plants? Also, what about wood shaping and maybe some type of golemancy? With some purely fluff based re-flavoring, could a druid get access to enough of these options to call himself a plant necromancer?

If, however, my husband insists on the path of "true" necromancy (he's stubborn at times :p), what about templates and such. V-monk, wasn't it you who posited or pointed out that plant type creatures could be made into zombies? Are other templates applicable to plant creatures that might convey some type of sentience (ghost, vampire, mummy, lich, etc.)? Does an undead beastie even need intelligence for a necromancer to commune/speak with it? Just as a normal druid can "talk" to mindless/inanimate plants, can a necromancer talk to inert corpses?

[VoodistMonk]

It was pointed out TO ME that my Lashvine Leshy Vampire Hunter could still be turned into a Vampire... and I am sure I have spread that news since then, as it was, indeed, news to me at the time. I had been operating under the assumption that plant-people would have been immune, but I was wrong.

And, to my knowledge, your average necromancer still needs to use Speak with Dead if they wish to converse with a corpse... your Druid husband may be able to use the same spell to speak to a wooden chair?

[Sysryke]

VoodistMonk wrote:

It was pointed out TO ME that my Lashvine Leshy Vampire Hunter could still be turned into a Vampire... and I am sure I have spread that news since then, as it was, indeed, news to me at the time. I had been operating under the assumption that plant-people would have been immune, but I was wrong.

And, to my knowledge, your average necromancer still needs to use Speak with Dead if they wish to converse with a corpse... your Druid husband may be able to use the same spell to speak to a wooden chair?

Yep. Speak with Dead is what I was referring to. My question was about acceptable targets. With that spell you can talk to a dead, untemplated, corpse correct? Could you use it to talk to a partial body? Would it work on a severed limb, or one of Gacey's creepy skin-lamps?

I feel like this is probably GM arbitration territory, but I was hoping the more rules-fooey types might have some insight.

[avr]

Speak with dead needs intact speaking apparatus to work. It doesn't summon a spirit, it uses the corpse to speak (pour acid down a corpse's throat and you can stop it functioning) and would fail on a severed limb or skin lamp; a partial corpse is a maybe. I can't imagine how it could work on a wooden post which never had such.

Making golems is about having the feats and a good spellcraft skill. Maybe a craft skill or two. Easy enough to do on a druid. Wood shape and warp wood are druid spells, that works. Repel wood = turn undead?

There are intelligent plant creatures and templates which can apply. It's hard or impossible to create creatures with those templates though.

[Sysryke]

Thanks for the help avr. This gives me a place to start if my husband seriously considers making the character.

From the sounds of is, while I know there is some kind of commune/speak with plants spell out there, if he wants to actually talk to inert furniture, we'll be into custom spell creation. Same probably for making furniture zombies. Possibly we could re-skin some summoning spells. Are there spells for summoning constructs? Or, are there spells that allow for the possession/annimation of objects, that can then be left with some level of autonomy, similar to the "basic programming" of skeletons or zombies?

This still sounds fun, but mechanically, it's going to take some work.

[VoodistMonk]

How far is this to go? Like what is the end goal?

Is your husband actually trying to pursue this as what their character "does", or is it simply something they are curious about? Like are we talking about something they are going to attempt often?

When you think of a Druid, you think of a little gang of animals following... when you think of a necromancer, you think of a little gang of skeletons following... is your husband looking to have a little circus of animated candlesticks, teacups, and footstools like Beauty & the Beast? Or is this a casual thing where they just talk to barstools because they are more interesting than the people sitting on them?

[avr]

This is why I recommended the supernaturalist archetype and the object reading spell. Object reading is the closest you'll get to chatting with furniture; the supernaturalist gets a few psychic spells possibly including object reading.

Animate objects seems like your possession/animation of objects spell. Well, there's animate rope too for what it's worth. Both of these are psychic spells.

A supernaturalist gets spells from the psychic spell list at 3rd, 6th, 9th, etc. He might choose object reading (3rd), lesser object possession (6th), minor creation or object possession (9th), animate objects (12th), call construct or greater object possession (15th) and whatever at 18th level.

If you want to use summoning spells reskinned that could work too.

[Sysryke]

VoodistMonk wrote:

How far is this to go? Like what is the end goal?

Is your husband actually trying to pursue this as what their character "does", or is it simply something they are curious about? Like are we talking about something they are going to attempt often?

When you think of a Druid, you think of a little gang of animals following... when you think of a necromancer, you think of a little gang of skeletons following... is your husband looking to have a little circus of animated candlesticks, teacups, and footstools like Beauty & the Beast? Or is this a casual thing where they just talk to barstools because they are more interesting than the people sitting on them?

I think it was more of a random thought. But specifically, he wanted to know if a necro druid could raise dead from wooden furniture (tables, chairs, beds, doors, etc.) The follow up to that was the question of wether a town or city would give him access to an abundant supply of raisable "bodies".

The conversation element was more of a logical (to me) continuation of the concept. I immediately thought of speak with dead and speak with plants. The thread title was my (perhaps foolish) attempt at a catchy title, but I think it pulled focus from the main point of the thread.

Main goal I think is undead minions made from wood and other plant derived materials.