Hello all. I am currently playing a Halfling archaeologist Bard and was curious about this particular magic weapon. Scatter-Sling for reference.
Is this a great or a terrible weapon?
On the one hand 1d3 [P] in a 15ft cone at a 50ft range, it is a cone so useful as a weapon attack AOE vs swarms (that aren't immune to weapons). Can theoretically split an adamantine/silver/cold iron bullet into many. Regular attack with no action to use, so iterative attacks/Rapid shot can stack.
On the other hand, 1d3 damage is tiny, worse than burning hands at 1st level.
Would this 1d3 cone add any modifiers to it for extra damage as the bullet fired normally would?
EG: Enchantment bonus (from being a +1), STR for being a sling bullet, Slipslinger or related damage to sling attack abilities/Feats, Archaeologists luck, other enchantments (like adding flaming to the weapon).
Or is this a terrible 1d3 static damage small cone, with [P] only damage ignoring bullet material, and only useful on a single standard attack? Making it literally worse than just a +1 sling (for 3.3k vs 2k gold)?
Well, having looked st it briefly it doesn't say anything about a Standard Action or The Attack Action, so you should be able to use the special property on a full attack at least.
Not sure on what damage modifiers you get to add.
I'd be dubious about it getting precision damage but pretty much anything else should add.
I don't think you get 50' + a 15' cone BTW, it reads like it's just the cone if you choose that option.
Here's a question: Does it work on Swarms?
So... basically you want to slap the Scatter property on a sling with an enhancement, normally seen on firearms?
I'd be dubious about it getting precision damage but pretty much anything else should add.
I don't think you get 50' + a 15' cone BTW, it reads like it's just the cone if you choose that option.
The sling range is 50ft, so you can put the cone start anywhere in that range without penalty, don't need to stand next to the swarm to use an AOE like with burning hands.
I agree with avr, it seems like the cone replaces the normal range.
So... basically you want to slap the Scatter property on a sling with an enhancement, normally seen on firearms?
It is a published first party weapon from Heroes From the Fringe, not homebrew.
I agree with avr, it seems like the cone replaces the normal range.
The weapon does say
"When the wielder of a scatter sling makes a ranged attack with the weapon using a nonmagical bullet as ammunition, she can have the bullet fragment into sharp pieces."So it seems you target a creature in range, then declare scatter shot on them, not unlike arrow eruption and the like I believe, but I may be wrong here.
So there appears to be two lines of thought on this...
A) the bullet scatters immediately upon being shot, creating a cone with a range of 15' originating at the sling, itself.
B) the bullet travels from the sling to a point of your choosing before scattering into a cone with a range of 15' originating at the point you selected within the sling's range (and line of effect to you).
Personally, I like "B" because it sucks less, and this is a fantasy game where you want to be able to do things that otherwise can only be done in one's imagination. And without definitive texts saying I can't, that is how I would run a scatter sling. Picking up a handful of gravel and flinging it in a 15' cone does not require a magical weapon... slinging a rock to some random point and having it explode in a directed cone does, in fact, sound magical...
So there appears to be two lines of thought on this...
A) the bullet scatters immediately upon being shot, creating a cone with a range of 15' originating at the sling, itself.
B) the bullet travels from the sling to a point of your choosing before scattering into a cone with a range of 15' originating at the point you selected within the sling's range (and line of effect to you).
Personally, I like "B" because it sucks less, and this is a fantasy game where you want to be able to do things that otherwise can only be done in one's imagination. And without definitive texts saying I can't, that is how I would run a scatter sling. Picking up a handful of gravel and flinging it in a 15' cone does not require a magical weapon... slinging a rock to some random point and having it explode in a directed cone does, in fact, sound magical...
Option A does seem to fail the logical and flavor text test for me. The bullet would just explode right in front of your face, making it harder and virtually impossible to hit already "hard-to-hit game."
"Song’o halflings often use these slings to hunt hard-to-hit game."
So option B makes the most sense.
A) the bullet scatters immediately upon being shot, creating a cone with a range of 15' originating at the sling, itself.
B) the bullet travels from the sling to a point of your choosing before scattering into a cone with a range of 15' originating at the point you selected within the sling's range (and line of effect to you).
"Song’o halflings often use these slings to hunt hard-to-hit game."
So option B makes the most sense.
Just to offer a counter-argument: Option B means you hit your target before it scatters, so it doesn't help you hit them.
Option A is more like a shotgun - the real-life equivalent of a weapon used to hunt hard-to-hit game.
Also just to reiterate - the damage you deal should be more-or-less the same as it would be with a sling, but you're hitting every enemy within a cone, and this option can be used with a full attack. That means if you could target your cone anywhere within the Sling's range you can very easily make ~25 attacks in a round if there are a few mooks on the board.
No, you would be making exactly as many attacks as normal, and comparing the results to everyone in the cone... but I see what you are saying.
Even with a positive Strength modifier, Weapon Training/Dueling Gloves, AWT: Trained Throw, PBS/Arc Slinger... It's 1D3+8(ish)? Who cares if you deal 9 damage to everyone at level 10?
By the time you have anything halfway worthwhile to contribute to damage on top of that 1D3, nobody cares about the damage your scattershot is doing. I don't even care if you have Greater Invisibility and Sneak Attack. Lol.
There are far worse things to worry about than nonmagical sling bullets making 15' cones... even if those 15' cones can start anywhere within the sling's range... even if its user has Far Shot and enchants the Scatter Sling with Distance or whatever...
It might, MIGHT, start to matter with Warpriest Sacred Weapon progression or any of the ways to scale weapon damage (like the Style that allows certain weapons to follow the Monk's Unarmed Strike progression).
But, ultimately, even in these corner cases... cool! Let it be cool. Why would you ever go out of your way to make it less cool?
Rather than doing normal sling damage once to each of 5 targets x the number of attacks you make in a full attack, optimal application is more like doing a full attack to each of 5 people. Which may be doable more often than you think if you can place your cone anywhere on the map. And really, a 'corner case' which does more than 1d3+8 damage at 10th level is the way that I expect this'd be used. My apologies if this assumption is wrong.
... more like doing a full attack to each of 5 people.
Yeah that's a better way of thinking about it.
And really, a 'corner case' ... is the way that I expect this'd be used. My apologies if this assumption is wrong.
That's what I'm thinking. You're not going to see this used on some random Fighter build, you're going to see it used on character who specialises in it.
A 10th level Warpriest can get that to 1d10+15+STR very easily.
A 10th level Occultist adding +1 Bane is dealing 1d3+2+STR+2d6 with zero feat investment.
It essentially ends up as a HUGE damage multiplier for anything that can be stacked on top of normal ranged attacks.
I still think it is best if it is allowed to be its best.
Hmmm... I'm gonna have to think about it.
On the one hand it's not likely to be as impressive as a well-built Barbarian with a Greatsword in most combats.
On the other hand it has the potential to make absolute mincemeat out of any groups of enemies you face.
Will that break the game? Depends on your encounters, but probably not.
It won't break the game any more than a halfway decent, yet entirely generic Sorcerer...
I don't mean to be argumentive, honestly... it absolutely is most likely meant to replace the sling's original range with a 15' cone originating at the sling, itself. Which could still be decent with the right build.
I am just a huge fan of "rule of cool"... who the f!ck ever uses a sling anyways? Much less goes out of their way to buy/craft this particular magical sling?
For the love of God, herself, and all she deems Holy... if someone decides to be a Halfling with the Warslinger alternative racial feature, and builds to be scary AF with a sling... let them. Please, please, let them. They have earned it... it deserves to be as awesome as possible.
It deserves to be as awesome as the Barbarian's Greatsword. It deserves to be just as potent for just as long if the player puts that sort of investment into it... picking a class with the ability to scale base damage, or add Bane, or Mutagens for extra Strength, or Weapon Training... they did this on purpose.
Reward them with something they can make use for the entirety of their career.
I am just a huge fan of "rule of cool"... who the f!ck ever uses a sling anyways? Much less goes out of their way to buy/craft this particular magical sling?
I mean, I'm thinking about it now ... although I'm not sure when I'll be able to
The good news is that it is only a ~30gp difference to buy/craft a Scatter Sling as a Sling Staff... Scatter Sling Staff, henceforth the SSS. Nice upgrade in damage/range/crit... for a price difference that literally means nothing to no one.
A 20pt buy Warslinger Halfling can start with 12,17,14,10,14,10... three levels of Weapon Master Fighter can get you a +10 to attack and +7 to damage with your mighty sling staff... +11/+8 with a +1 SSS... which is not unreasonable to have bought/crafted at level 3.
To attack: (+10)
+3 BAB +1 Size +1 WF +1 PBS +1 WT +3 Dex
To damage: (~7)
1D6 +1 PBS +1 WT +1 Style +1 Str
Do slings qualify for Startoss Style? Not that you can use Startoss with Slipslinger together (without very particular investment)... but a +6 damagecan come from there since I am pretty sure they do actually count as weapons in the thrown weapon group.
I have always gravitated towards Halflings and Warslinger and Slipslinger Style because I value the flavor of it more than looking for pure damage potential... but Startoss Style may be better choice if you want your shenanigans to stay viable late game.
Slipslinger only gives a +1 damage, and if you aren't going to invest in tossing alchemical items, then Startoss has to be the better choice. Far less feat investment involved for Startoss, as well.
I might have to consider giving Vrern Downflower a little rewrite... nah, I like the fact that Slipslinger style requires the Warslinger alternative racial feature available only to Halflings... it is worth it to keep him as a Slipslinger, me-thinks. Sometimes it just feels right, even if it's not "optimal".
The good news is that it is only a ~30gp difference to buy/craft a Scatter Sling as a Sling Staff... Scatter Sling Staff, henceforth the SSS. Nice upgrade in damage/range/crit... for a price difference that literally means nothing to no one.
A 20pt buy Warslinger Halfling can start with 12,17,14,10,14,10... three levels of Weapon Master Fighter can get you a +10 to attack and +7 to damage with your mighty sling staff... +11/+8 with a +1 SSS... which is not unreasonable to have bought/crafted at level 3.
To attack: (+10)
+3 BAB +1 Size +1 WF +1 PBS +1 WT +3 DexTo damage: (~7)
1D6 +1 PBS +1 WT +1 Style +1 StrDo slings qualify for Startoss Style? Not that you can use Startoss with Slipslinger together (without very particular investment)... but a +6 damagecan come from there since I am pretty sure they do actually count as weapons in the thrown weapon group.
I have always gravitated towards Halflings and Warslinger and Slipslinger Style because I value the flavor of it more than looking for pure damage potential... but Startoss Style may be better choice if you want your shenanigans to stay viable late game.
Slipslinger only gives a +1 damage, and if you aren't going to invest in tossing alchemical items, then Startoss has to be the better choice. Far less feat investment involved for Startoss, as well.
I might have to consider giving Vrern Downflower a little rewrite... nah, I like the fact that Slipslinger style requires the Warslinger alternative racial feature available only to Halflings... it is worth it to keep him as a Slipslinger, me-thinks. Sometimes it just feels right, even if it's not "optimal".
I was under the impression that Specific magic weapons could be upgraded, but their properties could not be applied to other magical weapons. A scatter sling staff would be amazing with my slipslinger/warslinger halfling as I already have a MWK one.
How would I make it into a scatter weapon, assuming I can? Apply the cost as a named enchantment?
In the crafting magic items section, it says you can make specific magical items of a different type simply by adjusting the price of base item to match... I believe their example trades a dagger for a rapier, or rapier for a greatsword...
In the crafting magic items section, it says you can make specific magical items of a different type simply by adjusting the price of base item to match... I believe their example trades a dagger for a rapier, or rapier for a greatsword...
Sooo ... Scatter-Longbow?
Meh, I can only find it on D20PFSRD, not AoN... so it's probably BS, but here it is:
"Some new items are really existing magic items with a different weapon or armor type, such as a dagger of venom that is a rapier instead of a dagger or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield. For these items, just replace the price of the non-magical masterwork item with the cost of the new type of item. For example, a rapier of venom has a price of 8,320 gp instead of the dagger of venom‘s price of 8,302 gp."
That sounds like something from the GM's guide, so it's probably more of a guide to dropping loot for PCs than to crafting your own items.
As usual, ask your GM.
Meh, I can only find it on D20PFSRD, not AoN... so it's probably BS, but here it is:
"Some new items are really existing magic items with a different weapon or armor type, such as a dagger of venom that is a rapier instead of a dagger or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield. For these items, just replace the price of the non-magical masterwork item with the cost of the new type of item. For example, a rapier of venom has a price of 8,320 gp instead of the dagger of venom‘s price of 8,302 gp."
It looks like it is from Ultimate Campaign pg170. Essentially, do it if it makes sense, GM decides what makes sense.
So, assuming the enchantment could be constructed onto a similar weapon of type IE: Sling to sling staff.
Is the enchantment using a fixed value (1d3 regardless of size or weapon), or is it using the weapons base die (1d6 slingstaff Small) for damage?
My instinct says base weapon damage (as the scatter sling itself is a small sling using 1d3 as base damage), presumably a medium sling would use a 1d4 for the scatter effect. If not, turning 1d6+ into potentially 2-7 1d3+ is a decent tradeoff still for a 1000gp ability.
A 1d6+ (Small slingstaff) at 2-7 hits per regular attack sounds very, very nice though =p
RAW, it does 1D3, regardless of size or base weapon used... because they did not specify that it does base damage, they wrote down 1D3, with no options or alternatives.
RAI, it is probably base weapon damage.
So, umm, ask your GM...?