VoodistMonk |
The Poppet Familiar feat gives you a little construct/poppet... relatively straightforward, I think... Poppet Familiar says your type doesn't change. Doesn't change from what it already was? Or doesn't ever change from construct/poppet?
The Verdant Familar Hex changes your Familiar's type to Plant, and gives it plant traits.
The Vampiric Familiar feat changes its type to Undead.
Could your Familiar have more than one type?
Would it just go in order at which they appear, and only the last one would apply?
A Dhampir Witch gets a Familar and a Hex at level 1... could take Verdant Familiar. Now it is a plant. At level 3, could take Poppet Familiar, which replaces your Familiar with a tiny construct/poppet. So you either wasted your level 1 Hex, or you have a tiny plant/construct/poppet that has both plant and construct traits. Either way, you could take Poppet Familiar at 3, then Verdant Familiar at 4, and end up with the same thing... except Poppet Familiar says the type doesn't change. Doesn't change from what it already was? Or doesn't ever change from construct?
Then we take Vampiric Familiar at level 11, which changes its type to Undead... giving it undead traits. Does it still increase Wisdom to match Intelligence and get a breath weapon?
What if we VMC Sorcerer for the Aberrant Bloodline and take the Aberrant Tumor feat? Do we have a tiny Undead plant construct/poppet tumor? That would be pretty sweet, I won't lie. As it should be for the investment, but still...
Mark Hoover 330 |
Normally a familiar's Type changes to Magical Beast upon becoming a familiar. From reading Poppet Familiar, this change would not occur. Instead it just remains a Construct (Poppet). Then when you hit level 11 your familiar simply becomes Undead, doesn't gain an additional type.
Edit: note that Poppet Familiar specifically calls out the ability to gain a "new" familiar. When gaining a new familiar a PC picks an Animal type but then that Animal changes type to Magical Beast. When choosing a Poppet you forgo that process altogether and just get a Tiny Construct in place of an Animal and it's type doesn't change from that.
Diego Rossi |
"Its type doesn't change" refers to a normal animal becoming a magical beast when it becomes a familiar. The poppet remains a construct.
A poppet is a specific type of construct. You don't transmute a different familiar in a poppet, you get a new familiar (similarly to what happens with other advanced familiars). So you don't stack traits starting with a verdant familiar and then taking the poppet familiar feat.
What happens if we go the other way? First poppet, then Verdant familiar?
Verdant familiar change your familiar type. The poppet loses the construction traits and gets the plant traits. I wouldn't allow it to get new augmentations as those are a construct thing, but the text of the feat and the poppet entry in the bestiary don't limit accessibility, so your GM should decide what Is appropriate.
VoodistMonk |
Drats.
I didn't really have any end game for that. Just thought it would be hilarious to have a tiny Groot zombie tumor as a Familiar. There are probably shenanigans one could get into messing with its type like that... but I cannot immediately think of anything.
If someone chose from a specific selection of classes with both a Familiar and access to Witch Hexes, and then chose a specific VMC for a specific Bloodline, furthermore dedicating three of their feats to Aberrant Tumor, Poppet Familiar, and Vampiric Familiar, and a Hex for Verdant Familiar... I think I would let them have it. Lol.
Treat it exactly like the Pass for Human alternate racial feature. Its type is Construct and does not change from that, which satifies the conditions laid out in Poppet Familiar. It gains all applicable plant traits from Verdant Familiar, all applicable undead traits from Vampiric Familiar, and it's a tumor because of Aberrant Familiar. It is treated as a construct, a plant, and Undead for all purposes such as spell targeting and Favored Enemy, exactly like Pass for Human.
You paid for it, you can have it. But that's just me.
Mark Hoover 330 |
Hey, if you WANT it to work in your game (since this is General Discussion, not Rules), then houserule it and make it work. Or ask your GM to let it work. Same way as I WANT Spring Attack to work with Vital Strike on a warpriest build but the RAW says differently. Doesn't mean I can't ask my GM to let me have it anyway.
Now if you're building for PFS, that's a different story. Can you even have a Poppet or Vampire familiar in PFS?
Finally, aren't there already plant familiars? Why take a Hex that changes your familiar to a Plant if you could just HAVE a plant right off the bat?
VoodistMonk |
I hadn't really thought about the fact you can just pick a plant. Like I said, I don't have a plan or end game for any of this. I assume it would be to have whatever creature you actually want fit a theme... I want a bat or scorpion, but I want it made out of sticks and leaves, or whatever.
Construct traits already include literally everything plant traits AND Undead traits have... low-light vision, Darkvision, all the immunities both/either would offer, so there is no actual benefit trying to change any of that... other than the obvious cool factor. There are some neat things that come with Vampiric Familiar besides just turning Undead, and Tumor Familiars have their own benefits.
But overall, I don't see this significant investment rewarding anyone with sigificant power. Lol.
Can Poppet Familiars take Familiar archetypes?
avr |
Poppet Familiar wrote:...it does not gain the ability to speak with others of its kindSo long as the archetype doesn't replace this feature... Yes.
It also doesn't get a variable familiar bonus like the +4 initiative that a couple of familiars get so egotist is out. Ambassador, emissary, occult messenger, prankster or sage in other words.
VoodistMonk |
Obviously Sage... a Poppet Familiar raises its Wisdom to match its Intelligence, and a Sage Familiar gets Level+5 Intelligence. Lol. I actually don't know how much good that would do, but TWO good ability scores has got to be better than one. And I think Poppets can get armor as an evolution or whatever, so you might be able to at least make up for the hit to natural armor progression.