"Raiment of Command" saving throw clarification


Rules Questions


So I just found this most interesting spell, "Raiment of Command", that I think would be fun for an infiltrator character I am conceptualizing. However, I am perplexed by the fact that in the saving throw section it simply says "Will". Not "Will negates" or "Will disbelief" or anything like that, simply "Will". The text provides not clarification of what happens when the saving throw against the spell is successful, so I turn to you all to help me sort this out. If one of the esteemed designers especially could by chance clarify, that would be especially helpful. Anyway, thank you all for your time and help in advance.

I look forward to hearing from all of you. :)


Without any qualifiers I'd assume Will = Will negates. I assume that the save is made when the spellcaster interacts with someone and leads to none of the effects applying to that someone if they make the save.

Yes, that's 'assume' twice. I could totally be wrong (it might be Will (harmless) for example). I'm not a designer, but the odds against your getting one of the writers of Pathfinder #5: Sins of the Saviours to reply here are pretty long.

Liberty's Edge

CRB wrote:

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief ): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

The spell is an Illusion (glamer), so a successful save should negate all effects and reveal that you are under the effect of a glamer.

Illusions are one of the more difficult parts of the game to do well.


I think I agree with Diego Rossi; it is an illusion that targets the caster, so the only way anyone is ever going to get a save against it is by interacting with it. That implies "Will disbelief".

BTW, to save anyone else the bother: I had my copy of the RotRL AE handy (since I finished running it last week), and it has the same error as AoN.

_
glass.


glass wrote:

I think I agree with Diego Rossi; it is an illusion that targets the caster, so the only way anyone is ever going to get a save against it is by interacting with it. That implies "Will disbelief".

BTW, to save anyone else the bother: I had my copy of the RotRL AE handy (since I finished running it last week), and it has the same error as AoN. EDIT: Presumably the original AP volume is similar.

_
glass.

Liberty's Edge

glass wrote:

EDIT: Presumably the original AP volume is similar.

Yes, the save line is identical. The only difference I see in the older version is that the intelligence to be affected by the additional penalty is 4 instead of 3.


Diego Rossi wrote:
CRB wrote:

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief ): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

The spell is an Illusion (glamer), so a successful save should negate all effects and reveal that you are under the effect of a glamer.

Illusions are one of the more difficult parts of the game to do well.

As good an answer as any. That's what I assumed, but, well, can never be too sure. Hopefully my GM sees things the same way.

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