So, like literally every other lazy spellcaster that summons $#!+ to do their work for them? It's not a random idea, it's an entire style of play... they even designed several classes specifically for this concept. I don't really see what the question is...
But, here is my take on it:
Evangelist Cleric with Spell Focus Conjuration, Augment Summons, Sacred Summons, Lingering Performance, Flagbearer, Discordant Voice, and Improved Initiative.
I meant the "lazy spellcaster" thing as a joke... rereading my post, it sounded kinda mean. I still don't really see the question, I wasn't joking about that. Just wanted to make sure there is no offense taken, overall.
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though while their eidolon is out they cant use their summon monster ability (They can still use the spells though I believe..)
Yes, the actual spellcasting works independantly from both the Eidolon and the Summon Monster SLA. Also, the Master Summoner archetype allows using both an Eidolon and the SLA, but the Eidolon is severly weakened, and thus is usually used for non-combat purposes. The archetype can also have multiples of the SLA active.
Are there any other good options for this idea? (I mentioned the idea to my GM and he said it seemed cool)
There's a pretty extensive guide for that.
I have played a Summoner (chained, the campaign started before PU came out), and the playstyle was almost exactly what you've described: Standing in the back, casting spells (Haste, some other buffs like Shield, and even quite a lot of Acid Splash), wielding a spear for potential AoOs (that I'm not sure I ever used).
Human
... heart of the fey replaces skilled, and gives you low-light vision, a +1 bonus to Reflex/Will saves, and Perception as a class skill.
Evangelist Cleric
Domain: Animal
1. Improved Initiative
1. Sacred Summons
3. Lingering Performance
5. Boon Companion
7. Spell Focus Conjuration
9. Augment Summons
11. Discordant Voice
Ok, running with Mark Hoover's above idea, because two is better than one...
Intructor Wizard VMC Cleric
Human or Industrious Urbanite Elf
*Elf can ALSO pick up Overwhelming Magic for yet another Spell Focus of their choice*
1. Apprentice
... commoner
1. Arcane School
... Conjuration
1. Cantrips/Spells
1(class): Scribe Scroll
1(race): Spell Focus Conjuration
1(VMC): Aura
1(level): Sacred Summons
2.
3. Apprentice
... Wizard (Conjuration)
3(VMC): Domain
4.
5(class): Extend Spell
5(level): Augment Summons
6.
7(VMC): Channel
8.
9(level): Superior Summoning
10(class): Craft Wand
11(VMC): Improved Channel
12.
13(level): Evolved Summon Monster
Have your Apprentice be an Industrious Urbanite Overwhelming Magic Elf Pact Wizard VMC Oracle for the Battle Mystery... have them take the Skill at Arms Revelation at level 3... or just have them be a Weaponplay Gazi... either way they go into Eldritch Knight as soon as possible...
Here is something different... you are a little, flying plant-person who is obsessed with fire. You can pop an Ever-Smoking Bottle, sing a song that allows your allies to see through smoke, then summon lush, fire creatures to fight in the fog.
Flame Dancer-Flamesinger Bard
VMC Sorcerer
Gathlain
+2 Dex, +2 Cha
... Fey Resilience
... Treeborn (20' land, 30' fly)
1. Cantrips/Spells
1. Fire Music
1. Bardic Performance
... Flame Dancer
... Distraction
... Fascinate
... Blazing Blades +1D4 fire
1(class): Fire Music
1(VMC): Bloodline
... Groveborn/Verdant
1(level):
2. Wildfire +5'
2. Well-Versed
3. Bardic Performance
... Song of Fiery Gaze
3(VMC): Bloodline Power
... Tanglevine 3+Cha
4. Fire Music
... Summon Monster I
... Summon Monster II
5. Bardic Performance
... Blazing Blades +2D4 fire
5(level): Spell Focus Conjuration
6. Bardic Performance
... Fire Break 20
6. Wildfire +10'
7. Fire Music
... Summon Monster III
7(VMC): Bloodline Power
... Lush Summoning
8. Fan the Flames
... 1st-level: Burning Hands
... 2nd-level: Flaming Sphere
... 3rd-level: Fireball
9. Bardic Performance
... Inspire Greatness
9(level): Augment Summons
10. Fire Music
... Summon Monster IV
10. Jack of all Trades
10. Wildfire +15'
11. Bardic Performance
... Fire Break 30
... Blazing Blades +3D4 fire
11(VMC): Extend Spell
12. Bardic Performance
... Soothing Performance
13. Fire Music
... Summon Monster V
13(level): Expanded Summons
14. Bardic Performance
... Frightening Tune
14. Wildfire +20'
15. Bardic Performance
... Inspire Heroics
15(VMC): Massmorph 1/day
16. Fire Music
... Summon Monster VI
17. Bardic Performance
... Blazing Blades +4D4 fire
17(level):
18. Bardic Performance
... Mass Suggestion
18. Wildfire +25'
19(VMC): Rooting
20. Bardic Performance
... Deadly Performance
Fire Music + Lush Summoning + Augment Summons =
Fire Resist 5, +1 fire damage,
Natural Armor +2, +4 saves vs
Paralysis, Poison, Polymorph, Sleep, and
Stunning,
+4 Strength, +4 Constitution
Gathlain stuff...
Fey Resilience: Even gathlains who leave the First World can retain a bit of the supernatural resilience shared by many fey. A gathlain with this racial trait gains DR 1/cold iron. This DR increases by 1 for every 5 HD the gathlain has. This replaces the spell-like abilities racial trait.
Tree-Born: Some gathlains take after their tree ancestors, standing more firmly but moving more slowly. They have no Constitution penalty but have a base speed of 20 feet and a fly speed of 30 feet (clumsy maneuverability). This replaces the penalty to Constitution and alters speed.
Summoner fits the idea perfectly but it is normally banned by most groups and I dont want to make my GM too annoyed with me.. The Eidolon can be very very strong, Even if you dont build it for strength it is easy to accidentally make really strong..
There's usually three issues with the Summoner. The first is summoned creatures clogging the game - your GM seems to not be afraid of that. The second is that any character with a bunch of attack rolls taking too much time, which can easily be remedied with a few simple tricks (ask if you want to know more). The third is the potential of the Eidolon to overshadow martial characters. This is a much bigger danger for cSummoner, and in any case, it depends on the other party members (for example if you have no damage-focussed melee, the Eidolon can't steal the spotlight from those).
Ultimately, there're multiple playstyles that might fit your wishes, and there're significantly different. You could play a full supporter, providing various buffs and maybe stuff like Aid Another. The pet-centric style is more like playing two characters, a melee guy, and a supporter who stands in the back. An actual summoning-centric character (i.e. one making use of Summon Monster or Summon Nature's Ally) is notably different from that, because the casting, at least to start a combat, is spend on summoning creatures, not on buffing or battlefield control. Unless you're in a campaign where you usually see combat coming, such a character needs a way to summon as a standard action (either with SLAs like Summoner or Monster Tactician Inquisitor, or by changing the spells, e.g. via Sacred Summons, check the guide for more).
Hybrids do exist, e.g. a Druid who both has a pet and uses SNA, but the above are the three main paths.
Monster Tactician is baller AF. That, right there, is an archetype that makes GM's pay attention...
Another archetype no one has yet to cover is the necromancer.
Clerics, gravewalker witches, necromancy specced wizards, death oracles etc.
You can atill take the main summoning frats and still have room to support your undead horde. Easily replaceable too as each new encointer can give you new bodies.
Animate Dead is an obvious source. Getting yourself some fast zombies or bloody skeletons is a good route to start.
Create Undead opens the door further but takes some prep work. The leadership feat will let you take an undead as a cohort or followers.
The obvious advantage of having undead on demand is not wasting rounds conjuring bodies. Plus their permanence means you can equip them in creative ways.
The tricky part is picking a buff suite that will make your undead more efficient. Mind affecting and humanoid targeting spells are out of the question. But there are still plenty of options.
Another archetype no one has yet to cover is the necromancer.
Clerics, gravewalker witches, necromancy specced wizards, death oracles etc.
You can atill take the main summoning frats and still have room to support your undead horde. Easily replaceable too as each new encointer can give you new bodies.
Animate Dead is an obvious source. Getting yourself some fast zombies or bloody skeletons is a good route to start.
Create Undead opens the door further but takes some prep work. The leadership feat will let you take an undead as a cohort or followers.
The obvious advantage of having undead on demand is not wasting rounds conjuring bodies. Plus their permanence means you can equip them in creative ways.
The tricky part is picking a buff suite that will make your undead more efficient. Mind affecting and humanoid targeting spells are out of the question. But there are still plenty of options.
Did someone say necromancer?
Just follow Ryze Kuja's formula...
JuJu Oracle 4/
Gravewalker Witch 3/
Mystic Theurge 2/
Agent of the Grave 5/
Mystic Theurge 6
You're welcome.
Did someone say necromancer?
Just follow Ryze Kuja's formula...
JuJu Oracle 4/
Gravewalker Witch 3/
Mystic Theurge 2/
Agent of the Grave 5/
Mystic Theurge 6You're welcome.
Multiclassing like that makes my eyes bleed. Theres no way that progression is organic.
Multiclassing like that makes my eyes bleed. Theres no way that progression is organic.
Did someone say necromancer?
Just follow Ryze Kuja's formula...
JuJu Oracle 4/
Gravewalker Witch 3/
Mystic Theurge 2/
Agent of the Grave 5/
Mystic Theurge 6You're welcome.
You start out as a necromancer, and at no point are you not a necromancer...
Whatever forces that be granting Oracles their powers have rewarded my spellcasting focus on necromancy with mysterious revelations about Undead Servitude and Spirit Vessels, allowing me to command the undead and animate JuJu zombies. These mysteries, however, come with a curse... my journey to lichdom has just began.
My spellcasting specialization on animating the dead has driven me to expand my access to new necromancy methods. One might even say I am obsessed with the occult manipulations of the dead. I make pact with an evil patron, creating a poppet to channel its evil power. This power can radiate from me and allows me to possess nearby undead.
I have learned much, but it is time to learn how to combine everything I have learned in order to see what I am really capable of. I can still feel my Lich Curse, and in pursuit of achieving my ultimate potential I embrace my curse. I then seek out, or more accurately my tattoos likely gave me away to, an agent on the path of the whispering way.
Those on the path appreciate my efforts thusfar, and teach me so, so much more. They inspire my necromancy to new heights. I become a manipulator of the undead, I gain death's shroud, and eventually the secrets of death, itself. I have learned enough to own my curse, I am now an Undead Initiate.
It is at this time I become a Lich and continue to combine everything I have learned into new and interesting ways to make literal armies of the dead... blah blah blah... I was reading down my build sheet looking at a level by level breakdown... I don't have a background actually writted out for that particular necromancer. Lol.
What if you had a half-elf Summoner/Inquisitor (Monster Inquisitor)? I don't know the levels or build off the top of my head, but the PC could have a bonus Skill Focus that could qualify them for Eldritch Heritage, then take that for a Valet Archetype familiar (that shares all the PCs's Teamwork feats). Valets are good at delivering Aid Another too.
So, you'd have a PC with a Familiar, an Eidolon, and an Animal Companion or Mount from their Inquisition/Domain. Make sure they've got Boon Companion where needed. The Familiar and either the Eidolon or the Animal Companion/Mount would accompany any summoned creatures to provide Aid Another, Flanking or other situational buffs to the one "hammer" companion the PC is mainly using.
Meanwhile the character summons up small clusters of living speedbumps to gum up fights, provide tactical buffs to other party members or in the late game provide handy, minor spell resources. Is this a workable idea or is it just overkill?
Interesting...
Since they are both 3/4 BAB, I would alternate chunks of 4 levels in each class...
Monster Tactician 1-4/
Master Summoner 5-8/
Monster Tactician 9-12/
Master Summoner 13-16
At 16:
BAB +12
Base Saves +8/+4/+12
CL 8, 3rd level divine spells
CL 8, 3rd level arcane spells
EDL 12 (w/ boon companion)
I chose to use the Chivalry Inquisition for a full level Mount, versus the Animal Domain's Animal Companion that is 3 levels behind. Still need Boon Companion to make up for some of the Summoner levels. That's as good as we can get, I suppose.
It looks like a lot of low level spells and probably a lot of low level summons... so tactics/strategy will be huge. Smart use of your teamwork feats, and the selection thereof, as well as positioning will be crucial to the success of this build being remotely relevant.
Hand out Harrying Partners to all your summons, you and your Eidolon both use a reach weapon with Combat Reflexes/Bodyguard. Maybe there's a way to work in the Gloves of Arcane Striking? The Helpful trait?
From what I'v seen online, What made the Eidolon the worst for the GM and party was the "Ball of pouncing tentacles" and "50 arms with swords" builds some people made
Nah, the most powerful (and thereby most problematic) build is simply to max out the limit with primary attacks. Tentacles can't be made primary (there's no way to not have any primary attacks), and attacking with multiple weapons isn't supported by the rules at all (the Eidolon could wield a bunch of sword, but wouldn't get more attacks than any TWF character). The change to the attack limit now including weapon attacks is a dysfunctional clusterf@&&, but in practice doesn't do much (presuming the GM isn't interpreting it in a mean-spirited way), as combining manufactured and natural weapons doesn't make for a good build.
Playing online should remove most of the issue with a character with many attacks, too, as long as you have multiple roll macros for various combat situations (when charging, when buffed with Haste, and so on).
I ran the numbers on a Protean Unchained vs Chained and it was something like 39 evolution pool points worth of stuff for Unchained(and 2 uncosted abilities) vs 26 evolution pool for Chained.
unEidolons are (potentially) more rounded out, but you can't improve their offense nearly as well. Ignoring that protean form is serpentine and not being able to take pounce is worth like a minus 30 points, the number of points that can be spend on increasing damage is much lower. You might save feats (e.g. aberrant doesn't need Iron Will which I otherwise see as a must-have for quadrupeds), but there aren't many feats that increase damage comparable to, say, a pair of evolution points.
Can you imagine an Inquisitor (Monster Tactician)5/Hunter 3? They're summoning up packs of monsters, dropping Outflank on them, using their own AC in combat and then buffing the heck out of their AC for utterly savage full attack rounds!
I always had this idea in my head of an half-orc MT summoning a group of t-rex with Snapping Flank. It's probably mathematically worse than full attacking monsters, but so much biteage! Om nom nom!