Basically just the title, I've mostly ignored this class since its not very party friendly (which may be a faulty judgement on my part) unless your just going to be in your vigilante form for battle and social in town which imo kind of defeats the purpose but vigilante soul intrigued me but before I go making some crazy build I want to make sure I know how it works first.
For the sake of this question I'm going to use something absurd an SS Vigilante/Paladin/Anti-pally and before you ignore this post i swear it makes sense. Here's the ability thats relevant.
Splintered Identity (Ex): A splintersoul’s two identities are even more distant from one another than those of a normal vigilante. He cannot use any of his vigilante talents while in his social identity.
However, for the purpose of qualifying for classes, feats, and other abilities, he is eligible if of his alignments meets the requirements.
So if I'm reading this correctly it breaks the usual alignment restrictions so as mister bill murray would say “Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!”
So yeah HOW exactly does that work in practice. Let's say your a 20th Lvl Pally/Anti-Pally/SS Vigilante.
Is it?
A) Social = Paladin 10/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Anti Pally 8/SS Vigilante 2
or
B) Social = Paladin 10/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Paladin 10/Anti-Pally 8/SS Vigilante 2
or
C) Social = Paladin 18/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Anti-Pally 18/SS Vigilante 2
or
D) Social = Paladin 10/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Fallen aka Vindictive Bastard Paladin 10/Anti-Pally 8/SS Vigilante 2
or
E) Something else
I honestly don't think it's C as interesting as that could, I'm mainly reading it as B or possibly D) but what do you guys think?
Note: I'm also asking essentially the same question for a Bard/Paladin, a Barbarian/Monk, an Anti-Pally/Monk, etc., etc. Anti-Pally/Pally just seemed the most extreme example.
Willingly committing evil acts is still a problem for a paladin/splintersoul vigilante, the archetype says so.
I'm not sure what you're getting at with the level stuff. A splintersoul vigilante isn't a paladin or antipaladin, you'd have to multiclass. Is that what you're asking?
o yeah i guess it would be a Vigilante/Paladin/Anti-pally...derp...lemme fix that
ok i fixed it, same question...A? B? C? D? E?
In regards to "Evil Act" just being an Anti-Paladin isn't inherently evil (since were ignoring alignments due to Splintersoul) so for the sake of argument your a Paladin of i dunno Abadar (doesn't really matter for the question) and an Anti-Paladin of Calistria your Paladin is a stick up his butt prude and your "Masked" version is all about free love etc.
You left out one very important detail.
A splintersoul with paladin levels must follow the paladin’s normal code of conduct while in a lawful-good identity, but while in an identity with a different alignment, the following changes apply to his code: Willingly committing an evil act (for example, casting a spell with the evil descriptor) still causes the vigilante to become an ex-paladin, but otherwise, he can do whatever else he feels is necessary to uphold the causes of law and good. He should strive to act with honor and uphold the tenets of his faith, but failing to do so is not a violation of his code. At the GM’s discretion, other classes or archetypes with similarly strict codes of conduct can also follow a less strict version of a code of conduct while in an identity with an incompatible alignment.
And likewise from the Antipaladin code.
Code of Conduct: An antipaladin must be of chaotic evil alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly and altruistically commits good acts. This does not mean that an antipaladin cannot take actions someone else might qualify as good, only that such actions must always be in service of his own dark ends. An antipaladin's code requires that he place his own interests and desires above all else, as well as impose tyranny, take advantage whenever possible, and punish the good and just, provided such actions don't interfere with his goals.
Even if you are multiclassing you still become fall if you willingly commit an act of the opposing alignment. So the first time you commit an actual good act you become and ex-antipaladin. Commiting an evil act makes you an ex-paladin. What you end up with is a character who is functionally a NPC class warrior with a different class skill list.
1) I would contest "Willingly" a Paladin doesn't fall because he was dominated into smacking his buddy around and Splintersoul is essentially two different people in the same way DID (more commonly recognized as split personality) is IRL.
That said even w/o domination an Anti-Paladin doesn't fall because he healed an ally. There's a VERY important caveat in the Anti-Paladin Code that says "This does not mean that an antipaladin cannot take actions someone else might qualify as good, only that such actions must always be in service of his own dark end" so really Paladin is the bigger issue so as long as my "Masked" version doesn't go around kicking puppies and murdering orphans i should be fine. (Paladin code includes this as well "otherwise, he can do whatever else he feels is necessary to uphold the causes of law and good. He should strive to act with honor and uphold the tenets of his faith, but failing to do so is not a violation of his code.")
Kind of like a non-neutral "Masked" druid would still work but still can't wear metal or a monk still cant wear armor w/o losing Wis to AC(
2) Seems like neither mention Neutral, Law or Chaos as an "Falling" issue. (Hence why Paladin's of Desna exist) Lawful Good doesn't mean Lawful Nice. In fact in my Paladin of Abadar example (which to be fair you may not have seen before you posted) he's kind of a dick (aka stick up his butt) and a prude. His Anti-Paladin side is kind of representative of everything he's suppressed and ironically is probably actually nicer even though he's definitely not "Good" (Note: this isn't a real character its just for discussion)
Oh and Would the Anti-Paladin half being a Tyrant or Insinuator change either of your answers? Why or Why not?
I'm honestly just curious/trying to understand (one of the reasons i'm using a fake character so i don't get protective :P) otherwise the SS archetype seems to do nothing but take your vigilante abilities away from your social form and force you to take quick/immediate change.
It'd be a weird tightrope to walk, you might have to go "that choice is evil, that's good, how do I make a neutral choice here so I don't fall in one class or the other?" from time to time. And without a cooperative GM there might not always even be a choice compatible with the currently active code and also non-evil/good as appropriate.
If you can make it work -
However, for the purpose of qualifying for classes, feats, and other abilities, he is eligible if one of his alignments meets the requirements. While in an identity whose alignment is incompatible with an ability, class, or feat, he temporarily loses access to the feat or ability or is treated as an ex-member of the class, as appropriate.
So a SS vigilante 2/paladin 10/antipaladin 8 is effectively a SS vigilante 2/ex-paladin 10/antipaladin 8 in one identity and a SS vigilante 2/paladin 10/ex-antipaladin 8 in the other.
Also because "A vigilante’s two alignments cannot be more than one step from each other on a single alignment axis." you probably can't do that multiclass. If your GM allows combining the darklantern archetype with splintersoul you can possibly get away with it.
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Alternate classes are standalone classes whose basic ideas are very close to established base classes, yet whose required alterations would be too expansive for an archetype. An alternate class operates exactly as a base class, save that a character who takes a level in an alternate class can never take a level in its associated class—a samurai cannot also be a cavalier, and vice versa.
Even with the splinter soul, i dont think you can be a pal and antipal
I thought the tightrope might be interesting to walk if i can get a DM thats willing and/or excited to play with that, maybe even challenge me as long as the outcome isn't guaranteed failure (not referring to Anti-Paladin/Pally specifically no idea what normally anti-thetical classes I'd go for)
Hmmmm...I know there's an ex-paladin archetype called "Vindictive Bastard" (Personally I find that name doesn't suit its abilities, it seems more hey dont mess w/ my friends than GRRRR REVENGE!!!) is there an ex-anti-paladin archetype?...i think that would be interesting and thematically appropriate (obviously if/when i actually make a character with this i'd have to find the ex-archetype for w/e classes are involved)
The alignment step limitation is a bummer for SS (its really weird imo that SS doesn't directly nix that) and yeah Dark Lantern could work but definitely isn't RAW since the both alter dual identity.
Thanks Avr outcome isn't what I was hoping for but hasn't completely killed my plans for this class, just gotta reign the alignment norm breaking in a bit (ie. Lawful Barbarian would work since they can be any non-lawful)
Edit: Ooooof and there's Name Violation with part 2 of a 1,2 punch combo to the only hope of an f'd up Pally/Blackguard combo. Phbbbttt. Truly dead now :P. Ironically this MIGHT actually answers my ex-antipaladin archetype question cause unless it has it's own it's technically ALSO Vindictive Bastard lol (it doesn't work RAW but its a fairly easy house rule)
Still opens up some interesting possibilities to less diametrically opposed classes that could never be combined in PF otherwise. (Also learning about Dark Lantern and some similar alignment breaking archetypes was also helpful)
Sidenote: I've always found it weird that the LG and CE alignments are considered the extremes, it seems to me that the half neutral alignments should be the extremes since their so much more focused on a single alignment.