Failedlegend The Eternal Gish's page

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This is Mekku if your curious...the uhh second face isn't canon i hid it as best as i could


The poison changes are somewhere in errata but that aside I decided to only take Whirlwind throw and inescapable grasp too many feats from champion and bastion fighting for those slots.

Here's the full build, will prob change a bit between now and Lvl 20 but it gives me a guide/

@1: Str16/Dex10/Con14/Int14/Wis10/Cha14
@5: Str18/Dex12/Con16/Int16/Wis10/Cha14 (Trained = Acrobatics, Language = Talican)
@10: Str19/Dex12/Con18/Int18/Wis12/Cha14 (Trained = ???, Language = ???)
@15: Str20/Dex12/Con19/Int19/Wis14/Cha14
@20: Str20/Dex12/Con20/Int20/Wis16/Cha16 (Apex likely Str but maybe Con) (Trained = Vacation Lore)

Legendary: Cooking Lore (Auto), Crafting (Auto), Athletics, Engineering Lore and Survival
Trained: Alcohol Lore, Diplomacy, Thievery, Religion, Society

Background: Cook

Class feats (Innovation: Armor = 1. Muscular Exoskeleton, 7. Heavy Construction, 15. Automated Impediments)
1 Tamper
2 Collapse Armor
4 Reverse Engineer
6 Gadget Specialist
8 Wrestler Dedication
10 Whirling Throw
12 Inescapable grasp
14 Soaring Armor
16 Unstable Redundancies
18 Negate Damage
20 Full Automation

Free Archetype (Champion+Bastion)
2 Champion Dedication
4 Champion's Resiliency
6 Champion's Reaction: Glimpse of Redemption
8 Divine Ally: Shield
10 Bastion Dedication
12 Quick Shield Block
14 Shield Salvation
16 Basic Devotion (Lvl 1 or 2 Feat): Weight of Guilt
18 Advanced Devotion (Feat up to lvl 8): Shield Warden
20 Advanced Devotion (Feat up to lvl 10): Shield of Reckoning

General Feats
3 Adopted Ancestry: Human
7 Ancestral Paragon -> Cooperative Nature
11 Toughness
15 Craft Anything
19 Cloud Jump

Ancestry Feats (Kobold, Human, Talos)
1 Ferrousoul – Modular B, S, P 1D6 Fist (Fluff = Metal Prosthetic)
5 Clever Improviser
9 Group Aid
13 Bounce Back
17 Metallic Skin

Skill Feats
2 Forager
3 Skill Up = Expert Athletics
4 Additional Lore: Cooking
5 Skill Up = Expert Survival
6 Magical Crafting
7 Skill Up = Master Athletics
8 Trick Magic Item
9 Skill Up = Expert Engineering
10 Unmistakable Lore
11 Skill Up = Master Survival
12 Quick Jump
13 Skill Up = Master Engineering
14 Rapid Mantel
15 Skill Up = Legendary Athletics
16 Water Sprint
17 Skill Up = Legendary Survival
18 Legendary Survivalist
19 Skill Up = Legendary Engineering
20 Legendary Professional

Finoan wrote:

Personally my wrestler character is most looking forward to clinch strike and submission hold. But any of them are pretty good. I have Suplex and you are right - trading grabbed for possibly prone is less about the condition and more about the additional damage that it does.

Now... What about the Remaster 'killed' your old build? Since you have Champion archetype, I am assuming that you are still allowed to use Core Rulebook options...

Since it's shorter first the champion question, yep until Core 2 comes out we are using champions as is (we're using the remastered versions of classes,spells, etc. that have been updated), were assuming Edict/Anathema are just gonna supersede alignment for now. Also we use Foundry VTT so were kind of bound to the changes they make.

Regarding the build it was a poison based (refluffed as alcohol) we called them "Free samples" my guy runs a restaurant cart (like a food truck, were playing the circus AP Extinction curse)...technically its not officially part of the remaster but it was errata released at pretty much the same time.

Basically poison was already suboptimal (both due to lowish damage and targeting fort not being ideal) but it was good enough that my enjoyment of the character concept was enough to make it fun and i WAS having a blast with it

Than For SOME reason a dev at Paizo wanted to make poison even more useless...iirc most poisons got their damage halfed or worse except for like one or two, due to Toxicologist (aka Mixologist) Alchemist scaling poison DC i could have stuck with the few that didn't get hit quite as hard (still nerfed) but really killed the whole idea of my being an experimental restaurateur if he always used the same "alchohol"

Also as I mentioned when talking about Champion we use Foundry VTT so continuing to play my poisoner would be really boring or require the DM to edit ALL the poisons back to their old form which would be ALOT of work, were hoping that the nerf is due to changes to the Toxicologist or something.

Now im going to go to Legendary in survival, additional Lore: Cooking and tend to obsessively taste most plants, mushrooms, etc. we come across although I always at least try a Lore: Cooking and one of the Sorc's does Medicine checks on it to check if its poison and/or appetizing first otherwise I'm just glad I have a decent fort save.

Silver Lining is it's a bit easier with a proper frontliner before we were relying on an animal companion and summons to do that and it was a bit janky.

ok so before saying anything else i realize Kobold is in NO way ideal for this build (nor is this build an optimal one) but this is a salvage build due to remaster killing my build so gotta stay a Kobold (im really attached to the little guy) and frankly im cool with suboptimal builds as long as im enjoying myself

Mekku is a Talosian (Metal Planar) Kobold Inventor w/ Champion and Bastion archetypes (we use free archetype) and my GM suggested the Wrestler archetype since I keep grappling alot (I have a lethal unarmed attack due to the Ferrousoul Talos Feat) so im trying to fit it in to increase my battlefield control to protect my squishy party (2 sorcs and a witch)...champion, bastion and my shield already make me tough along w/ my inventor power armor. I just need to discourage them from walking right past me and i like grappling.

That all said I have 6 slots to take wrestler feats and I've narrowed it down to 7

Open slots (Currently Level 5)
8 Wrestler Dedication
10 ???
12 probably inescapable grasp
16 ???
18 ???
20 ???

Feats: Dedication, Combat Grab, Disengaging Twist, Clinch Strike, Strangle (its non-lethal so the name is a bit of a misnomer), Whirling Throw, Inescapable Throw

Strangle - im considering ditching simply cause of the name...im not sure if its suits Mekku he has no problem fighting but he tries to solve stuff peacefully or at leadst non-lethally if possible (its why i chose redeemer champion), i mean i can somewhat see it as a non-lethal way to subdue a caster but still not sure

Disengaging twist - since this and clinch strike are both reactions and i will already have my champion reaction this just gives me options and I THINK i'd prob use clinch strike more often or at least it would function as a deterent (I get a free reaction for shield block at 12 so less relevant but nothing wrong w/ two shield blocks)

No reactions - i COULD drop both clinch strike and disengaging twist and choose another feat as i do already have reactions (Glimpse of redemption and shield block)
*Crushing grab - deals str mod bludgeoning damage on a successful grapple but it's only for the BASE grapple action (GM says so) so its really not worth it
*Aerial Piledriver - nothing wrong with this feat I just cant visualize Mekku doing this since he's in a wheelchair (sort of its a steampunk device that moves with 6 "legs" that have hand at the end for climbing ladders etc. these hands can only be used for mobility not to hold or use things)
*Snagging Stike - seems rather redundant with grappling since they both apply off-guard...presumable you would do snagging strike to fulfill the req for combat grabs press trait but still meh imo
*Elbow Breaker - disarm is kind of meh and i prefer combat grab despite the press trait
*Suplex - slightly easier to visualize than aerial piledriver but still a stretch, it also releases the grapple so is more about damage than "tanking" whereas at least with whirling throw I can get them away from the party (and possible into a hazard or at least difficult terrain...ironically old Mekku would appreciate wrestler mekku being able to throw enemies into his traps)
*Running Tackle - a little hard to justify when theres so many great 1 action abilities and aside from round 1 i dont move much
*Submission Hold/Spinebreaker - makes them enfeebled/clumsy which make it harder to escape with Athletics/Acrobatics respectively and are nice debuffs, they were hard to drop TBH...spinebreaker is little brutal sounding though...definately strong contenders
*Form Lock - lets you wrestle someone out of a polymorph, fluff wise REALLY cool but probably WAY too niche

Note assumptions made above are based mostly on DM rulings but I could have misunderstood something

Failedlegend The Eternal Gish wrote:
Elfteiroh wrote:


Is that... a tortoise person?? Maybe... an awakened tortoise? I'm interested. :P
turtle beastkin maybe?

nvm apparently awakened animal is an upcoming ancestry in howls of the wild so yeah most likely awakened

Elfteiroh wrote:


Is that... a tortoise person?? Maybe... an awakened tortoise? I'm interested. :P

turtle beastkin maybe?

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Failedlegend The Eternal Gish wrote:
dissapointed halflings didn't get a real name for their race like half-orc and half-elf but 2/3 ain't bad :D
We still don't know what Dwarves call themselves do we?

Dwemer obviously :P (Dromaar make me think of Elder Scrolls)

JiCi wrote:
Failedlegend The Eternal Gish wrote:
dissapointed halflings didn't get a real name for their race like half-orc and half-elf but 2/3 ain't bad :D

I think both "Kender" and "Hobbit" are trademarked names...

I would have replaced leshies with [not wimpy] kobolds...

For real, Paizo's denial of a draconic ancestry is seriously getting annoying...

I meant a new one like Aiuvaren and Dromaar.

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dissapointed halflings didn't get a real name for their race like half-orc and half-elf but 2/3 ain't bad :D

ottdmk wrote:
My only concern is you have three Dedications by Level 4. I know that the GMG suggests removing the "get more feats from this archetype before taking another dedication" rule when the free archetype follows a theme (which Extinction Curse does) but I was under the impression that was to allow two archetypes at one time... not three.

In our group we view the class feat line and the free archetype as seperate for the purposes of "no dedication feat until two more feats are taken" clause, as for the two dedications in the free archetype line trapsmith specifically allows itself to be taken after snarecrafter dedication.

"You can select the dedication feat for the trapsmith archetype even if you haven't yet gained three feats from the snarecrafter archetype."

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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
I don't really have much to contribute other than that this concept is awesome and I am jealous of its creativity! :P

I can't take all the credit the DM and the other players helped me along :D (Free archetype also helps alot for wacky builds like this)

Thanks though, I appreciate the compliment :D

Long time 1e GM, new to 2e but I'm a player (formerly a Starfinder group) so I could use some help.

So far I've played a Sprite Primal Sorceror 1-10 called Da'wikk (Outlaws of Alkenstar) and currently playing a BeastPlantkin Fleshwarp Cleric of Arundhat 11-14 called Caesar in Fist of the Ruby Phoenix (he's actually a mutated/fused version of the sorceror and his familiar who was effected by a mana storm when he went on a pilgrimage after Outlaws...he was ashamed about how violent he became was originally just a prankster...basically received divine anger management from Arundhat...learned alot about various religions whilst looking for a new place to belong)

Next Campaign is going to be Extinction Curse and I've ended up making a "Food Truck" operator who is also the circus general "fix-it/builder" guy.

Just wondering if I might have missed anything or mischose something (Note: Battlezoo is allowed, Free access to all ancestries but anything else only common can be used w/o permission unless "access" is fulfilled, DM is pretty strict on using anything other than perception for intiative unless an ability explicitly says so such as Avoiding notice = stealth or gladiator = performance)

"Alchemist, Inventor, Master of Snares and Culinary Extraordinaire"

Ancestry: Draconic Scion Kobold

Exemplar: Toadstool Dragon (Famous for being amazing chefs despite being able to eat rotten food, etc. themselves)

Background: Sewer Dragon (Kobold Background about being born in absalom sewers) he eventually opened a food stall in the city...only served rotten food a few times before realizing others couldnt eat it, eventually got some serious wanderlust and joined the good circus, encouraging circus owner to rescue PCs, animals,etc. from the bad circus (see EC players guide for context)

Legendary: Crafting (Auto), Cooking Lore (Auto), Alcohol Lore (Auto), Engineering Lore, Stealth and Survival
Trained: Acrobatics, Athletics, Circus Lore, Diplomacy, Performance, Thievery
“Untrained but Trained”: All Other Lores, All Other Skills

Weapon(s): Throwing Knives (Thrown instead of ammunition so misses don't consume poison) and Air Repeater (mainly to make use of perpetual poisons)

Deity(ies): Thisamet (and maybe Brigh)

Research Field: ToxicMixologist (all poisons are refluffed varieties of alcohol...nothing mechanical has changed)

@1 – Str 10/Dex16/Con10/Int18/Wis12/Cha12
@5 - Str 12/Dex18/Con10/Int19/Wis14/Cha12
@10 – Str 14/Dex19/Con10/Int20/Wis16/Cha12 (Skill: ???)
@15 – Str 16/Dex20/Con10/Int21/Wis18/Cha12
@20 – Str 18/Dex20/Con12/Int22/Wis18/Cha14 (Lore: Vacation)

Free Archetype (Snarecrafter, Trapsmith and Scout)
2 Snarecrafter Dedication
4 Trapsmith Dedication
6 Remote Trigger
8 Recycled Cogwheel
10 Quick Snares
12 Finessed Features
14 Lightning Snares
16 Scout Dedication (at this level Legendary sneak grants me avoiding notice for free so I needed a second exploration activity)
18 Advanced Breakthrough (8 or lower): Ubiquitous Gadgets
20 Giant Snares or Fleeting Shadow

Class feats
1 Alchemical Familiar: Water Booze Elemental: Extra Reagent & ???)
2 Inventor Dedication
4 Brilliant Crafter
6 Basic Breakthrough: Reverse Engineer
8 Advanced Breakthrough: Gadget Specialist
10 Pinpoint Poisoner
12 Powerful Snares
14 Extend Elixir
16 Eternal Elixir
18 Combine Elixirs
20 Improbable Elixirs or ???

Ancestral Feats
1 Toadstool Breath Weapon (15ft cone of Poison Spores)
5 Clever Improviser
9 Snare Genius
13 Vicious Snares
17 Ride the Breath (120ft Line Poison), Spellturning Scales, Incredible Pallette, Spore Breath or ???

General Feats
3 Adopted Ancestry: Human
7 Ancestral Paragon -> Cooperative Nature
11 Unmistakable Lore
15 Craft Anything
19 Legendary Survivalist

Skill Feats
2 Additional Lore: Cooking
3 Skill up = Stealth Expert
4 Additional Lore: Alcohol
5 Skill up = Survival Expert
6 Forager
7 Skill up = Stealth Master
8 Swift Sneak
9 Skill up = Engineering Lore Expert
10 Magical Crafting
11 Skill up = Survival Master
12 Foil Senses
13 Skill up = Engineering Lore Master
14 Canny Acumen: Perception
15 Skill up = Stealth Legend
16 Legendary Sneak
17 Skill up = Survival Legend
18 Supertaster
19 Skill up = Engineering Lore Legend
20 Legendary Professional (Engineering, Cooking and Alcohol)

Thanks in advance for any advice :D

So the pretty much the title a friend of mine picked up the "Ulimate Kineticist Compendium" by legendary games and whislt i already new about the Kineticists of Porphyra series of the Legendary Kineticist I'd never seen the Mechanic element and my buddy and I thought it would be a cool way to bring back my old "Lifeguard" character who was killed.

The "Promethan Oracle Curse" part is mostly just a fluff thing...his power over flesh and nanites being the thing keeping him together with nothing but his sheer stubborness keeping him go, insisting on continuing to be a Lifeguard (planning to use him in a Skull & Shackles Campaign)

First hit to the idea is I don't want to be a natural attacker nd i also don't want to be a minionmancer so corpse puppeter or the viscera "summon" abilities are also off the table but the abilities from both machine and viscera thta grant evo points are of great interest to me whther im going melee or ranged.

Oh i should also mention that this is a Gestalt im also a Deep Shaman. (One of the archetypes that use Cha or Wis instead of Con is preferable like Abberant but i dont think that mixes with fusion)

Subdermal Plating and Technograft really catch my eye

To be honest I'm pretty open to achieving this in any way possible, although its would have to be 1st party unless its from Ultimate Kineticist Compendium since thats the only 3rd party stuff that is approved (machine is still a maybe though)

Any thoughts guys?

Side-question: Has anyone done a guide to machine kineticist, legendary kineticist 2 and/or kineticists of Porphyra 4, sadly N. Jollys guide don't cover those.

John Mangrum wrote:

New options by class:

Biohackers: 1 alt class feature, 2 fields of study, 5 theorems
Envoys: 4 improvisations, 6 expertise talents
Mechanics: 1 alt class feature, 2 drone chassis, 2 basic drone mods, 2 advanced drone mods, 6 mechanic tricks
Nanocytes: 15 knacks
Operatives: 1 alt class feature, 2 specializations, 7 exploits
Precogs: 1 anchor, 11 temporal anomalies
Soldiers: 2 fighting styles, 4 gear boosts
Witchwarpers: 1 new option that applies to all witchwarpers

In addition, every spellcasting class gets new spells.

Nothing for Vanguard or Solarion? (Technomancers too but they got new spells at least)

RiverMesa wrote:

- Legacy: dwarf, elf, half-elf, half-orc, gnome, halfling

I really hope they DON'T bother with the legacy species, I actively avoid the species that you can play in pathfinder, if they address them at all a side bar for official rules to transfer over alt racial traits from pathfinder would suffice imo.

I hope they focus solely on the Starfinder specific races sans the ones that already have alot of alt options.

So lets see if I won a contest to choose all 25 races my first step (after removing legacy races) would be to look at what races have NO alt racials.

WOW!!! Thats still EIGHTY SIX!! races...damn...I knew Starfinder had alot of them but DAMN!!! You go Paizo thats easily over 100 in total.

Well I gotta narrow this down somehow...Well this IS my imaginary contest and opinion so I'll start by nixing all the “bug-like” races (except spathinae ill explain later), that should cut it down a fair amount.

That only brings us down to 76...weird I could have sworn there was way more “bug-like” races ok next hopefully big chunk, races that are either just not “alien” enough (ie. If they were still on the list elves would be removed but vesk would stay for example) or races that may as well be legacy races like the Ferran are VERY similar to Dwarves. Races that have interesting features like the Brakim's removable limbs are exceptions (even though i'm not a huge fan of that race so it might be removed later)

Hmmm...still only brings it down to 67...time to just start removing any races left I don't find interesting/don't like for w/e reason (non-mechanical cause alt racials could fix that, ie. Shakalta)

OK down to 50...still twice as many as the book will have, next lets try to match up races that are similar and choose 1 of each.

After that I still had a few more than 25 so had to remove them and I ended up with the following race, I added some notes of what I'd like to see (alt racials and/or alt stats are assumed for all but im specific with some)

1. Astrazoan – One of my fav races, alt stats please :) oh and official ruling on whether or not monstrous humanoids count as humanoids for shapeshifting purposes.

2. Borai – Clarify why a Ysoki Borai is suddenly medium (or more likely fix the wording so it says that they are their original races size), please expand old talents to cover more races.

3. Brenneri – Their adorable that is all :D

4. Contemplative – just an interesting race id like to know more about

5. Copaxi – not much specific just wanna know more about them

6. Dragonkin – would like to see medium and small variants

7. Dromada - id like to know more about em

8. Entu Colony – Ooze race is definitely unique had a hard time choosing between this and Selamid so honestly either would make me happy to see

9. Entu Symbiote – EXTREMELY versatile race both fluff wise and mechanically (can be any animal, size, special movement type, natural attack) would like to see alt stats to match that fluff/mechanical flexibility.

10. Hortus – not much to say here, just like mushroom people

11. Ixtangi – LOTS of abilities = LOTS of options for alt traits

12. Jububnan – just an interesting race id like to know more about

13. Raxilite – adding rules to play a “family” (2-4) of these guys to utilize LFAN symbiosis would be cool otherwise just one of my fav races

14. Scyphozoan – just an interesting race id like to know more about

15. Seprevoi – always had a weak spot for quadrupeds and this one is medium so much more party friendly (medium variants of the larger quadrepeds would work too)

16. Shakalta – Awesome race (twin soul beings made of LIGHT!!) ruined by forced 10/10 multi-class (which was a good IDEA, just executed horribly/not well supported), either add an alt racial to replace that or add more multi-class friendly/char level based abilities/feats (make them require you to be a Shakalta so you have more freedom), or maybe have them level faster or something I dunno.

17. Shatori – Love these guys, just interesting such an interesting ascetic/design

18. Shimreen - just an interesting race id like to know more about

19. Spathinae – this is special I cant stand bugs but i LOVE the idea of a swarm PC please add some alt traits for “Vermin-like” that let you be different swarms (for example thanks to a very nice DM I was allowed to play a Spathinae that was a mix of plants and animals, it was basically a flying [no legs, four arms] sentient ecosystem....was Plant-like instead of Vermin-like)

20. SRO – When it comes to the "robot" races SRO are the most flexible and are even more underdogs/mistreated than androids are.

21. Stellifera – just an interesting race id like to know more about

22. Telia - just an interesting race id like to know more about

23. Tromlin Bloodseeker - just an interesting race id like to know more about

24. Urog – Not really sure how to categorize these guys but they seem really interesting and alot of the art ive seen makes them look really cute.

25. Worlanisi – wanna know more about this inherently lucky race

Gaulin wrote:
I love the evolutionist to death, I'm crazy excited for it. But I don't think mad scientist should be limited to one class - it's a broad enough category that there could be subclasses like it for every existing class. Kind of like how casters bled into other classes in galactic magic.

Paizo's history says they will likely add alt class features and/or archetypes that allow each other class to access some abilities from/similar to evolutionist in the same book or shortly after.

Leon Aquilla wrote:

>There's also a system for easily creating your own playable species

Finally, I can make SF-legal centaurs. <3

To be fair there IS several Quadrupedal races already but yeah i'm stoked for the custom race creator too. SF Society will likely ban it though :(

The NPC wrote:

"A new class, the evolutionist, allows you to transform yourself over time into an eldritch being, mechanized construct, sepulchral undead, or riot of biological potential, each with unique abilities—and drawbacks, should you allow your transformation to grow out of control."

Where have you been? Where have you been? Damn you! Where have you been?...How dare you! How dare you come to me now, when I am this!

Been checking out the playtest recently (a friend wants to try it out in one of our games) and I'm really disappointed in eldritch....seriously spell resistance on a class feature that makes you want to be around allied casters is just so counter intuitive.

Glad to hear their making it a inherently full BAB class though.

Fluff wise I love all four of the current "paths"

Gaulin wrote:
Alternate racial traits are always great. I also loved the species grafts in the last alien archive, would also fit well in this book (I mean as much augment support as we can get would be great in a book with evolutionist)

I love the species grafts too, would love more, as for more augments in general you gotta assume they'll add more with the evolutionist otherwise it would be like if Galactic Magic has no new spells/casters in it.

Necrografts ESPECIALLY need support there so few of them.

As a person making a Vehicle Mechanic for our next campaign once we finish Horizon of the Vast I REALLY hope to see new modifications, etc. in this

Damn I got so excited about a fun idea I didn't even consider the problem of roofs, I'll have to check with my GM to see if that'll be viable otherwise that does completely bork the idea. Dammit.

Thanks for all the help nonetheless, if it gets shelved the idea will be kept for a more open terrain campaign.

Claxon wrote:

I did not realize effortless acrobatics helped fly speed.

I just assumed it was related to (more normal) acrobatic things. Kind of ignoring that acrobatics absorbed the fly skill, and so it might include flight related things under such a feat name.

Effortless AERObatics ;D Easy mistake to make and I may have even mispelled it in previous posts


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Needs a friend with a flying drone named "Top Rope"


I could buy one of these, he can film my exploits :)


Assuming I fail encourage someone to play a mech w/ a flying drone or vehicle :P

Oh that ALSO reminds me that theres augmentations that increase your land speed which would increase my defy gravity speed since its based on my land speed so I'll be sure to invest in those ASAP.

Speed Suspension Lvl 4/8/12: +10/20/30ft Respectively

https://www.aonsrd.com/Cybernetics.aspx?ItemName=Minimal&Family=Speed%2 0Suspension

I can even put these in prosthetic limbs so hideaway limbs would help me hide stuff :)

Claxon wrote:

To be honest I don't think 3 point stance will help you all that much.

It prevents damage, but the damage you would take is how you get bonus damage. I guess if you would fall from too high it could mitigate the damage beyond what Heavy Landing would absorb, but honestly you're not going to have to worry about that too much. You only take 1d6 of damage per 10ft fallen. You speed is 40ft, but remember under normal conditions every square of movement up costs an additional 5ft of movement. So, if you're on the ground, you will only be able to fly up 20ft. Meaning you will only get 2d6 of falling damage, which will average to 7 points of damage. Which will completely absorb at level 7. Sure, you can find some ways to boost your movement speed and probably get up to 30ft in the air for 3d6 eventually, which will let you add 10.5 points of damage on average.

Even at low levels this simply isn't a good tactic.

It's not bad if you could start combat while flying 30ft in the air and just use this to start combats with some extra bonuses, but defy gravity wont let you do that.

3pt. Stance is mainly for the never fall prone part and the extra 1d6 reduction is only there IF my heavy landing doesn't reduce the whole thing, I don't know what RAW would insist that the 1d6 damage would be removed BEFORE heavy landing but if the GM rules it that way ill just take Improved Kip-up that lets you stand as a reaction and eventually as a free action.

As for moving up effortless aerobatics removes the half speed problem (When flying, it costs you no additional feet of movement to ascend.) and I get +10 from fleet (devy gravity uses my land speed) and being gravity attuned gets me a further +10ft which = 50ft Fly speed totalling 6D6.

That said I might take Effortless Aerobatics at Lvl 5 than fleet at 7 instead of the other way around so I don't have to fly half-speed even for the 1 level (level 6).

Claxon wrote:
You're not usually going to fall that often

Lvl 1 to 5 will be a bit difficult as I'll rely on terrain (to jump off of) and acrobatics to jump but I pick up Defy gravity at Lvl 6 which lets me fly for a single move than it specifically says that if I don't end my movement on solid ground I fall, so it's move -> fall -> stab. Three point stand makes it so i NEVER fall prone and before that I can utilize Ysoki's moxie to stand as a swift action.

Claxon wrote:

Remember, at level 7 you get a reduced penalty for making a full attack and at level 13 you get to make 3 melee attacks instead of 2.

I just can't see a way to make Heavy Landing your main thing without handicapping yourself.

This I can't argue with I realize its not optimal which is why I'm trying to optimize it as much as possible so its not so bad I'm useless.

Garretmander wrote:

About the only way to make it useful (but not your main thing) is to have a good thrown weapon/ranged weapon, and then use defy gravity to get above targets when you need to double move to close the range, and can't get close enough to attack or can't charge.

Then throw, finish the move next turn and get the bonus damage as you continue to close in. That way you get to attack every turn, and get the bonus damage.

But... you won't be doing this every combat, so trying to further spec into it seems... of dubious value. Even worse, you probably won't be fully attuned when you use the revelations, so you won't get the bonus +cha modifier from heavy landing, just what it prevented.

I don't really understand what your saying here

1) How am I double moving than making a ranged attack?
2) Heavy Landing only affects melee attacks not ranged ones
3) Why wouldn't I be fully attuned, I'd be fully attuned by the start of the 3rd rd. and I'm a Broken Cycle so I have little reason to break attunement.
4) To be fair I have a feeling the cha to damage from soulfire fusion and the cha to damage from heavy landing probably don't stack assuming double stacking the same stat is a no go like in pathfinder.

This started as a build to try out the new Broken Cycle Solarion but than I fell in love with the Heavy Landing ability. Otherwise the theme is "Shadow Solarion" (shame the "blade in the night" revelation sucks) anyways this is what I have so far.

Note: This Build assumes Max Lvl 13
Note2: Since this is a Broken cycle build being attuned is basically assumed to be always = true in combat and fully attuned only a few rounds in. Same w/ sidereal influence outside of combat.

Broken Cycle Solarion w/ Lunar Weapon

Race: Skilled Nograv Ysoki (+4 Dex, -2 Con)

Theme: Athlete (Acrobatics, what starfinder sport? thinking Brutaris?) or Noble Scion (Heir or Legacy member of a Jedi-like group) or ???
Deity: Accelsys (character is obsessed with speed and mobility)
Skill Adept: Disguise and Bluff (Just makes them class skills)
Sidereal Influence: Disguise & Sense Motive, Add Stealth @ Lvl 11, Add Bluff @ Lvl 12 (+1d6 to skill checks)

Str 10 +2 (Stat up @ 10) = 12
Dex 16 +2 (Stat up @ 5)+ 4 (augment) = 22
Con 10 +4 (Stat Up @ 5 & 10) = 14
Int 10 +4 (Stat up @ 5 & 10) = 14
Wis 10 +2 (Stat up @ 10) = 12
Cha 16 +2 (Stat up@ 5)+ 2 (augment) = 20

Stat up 5 = Dex, Cha, Con and Int (@5) - Catch up Percep/Disguise
Stat up 10 = Con, Str, Wis and Int (@10) – Add ??? Skill

Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Sense Motive, Stealth & Alternate Perception/Disguise until Lvl 5

Equip: Solarion "Claw" w/ ??? Crystal and Soulfire Infusion (adds cha to damage)

2 Heavy Landing (Requires 2) = Reduce fall damage by lvl than add that damage to your next melee attack, add cha mod to this extra damage as well if fully attuned
4 Eclipse Defense (Requires 4) = reduce melee attack damage by 1/2 if you beat KAC+4 w/ melee atk
6 Defy Gravity (Requires 6) = fly for a single move action (use land speed+10ft) than fall if not on solid ground, its basically force jump, I intend to purposefully "fall" to mix it with Heavy landing+Three Point Stance
8 Warp Perception (Requires 6) = reduce disguise DC by up to half lvl
9 Weapon Orbit (Requires 6) = can throw melee weapons as an attack than have them return
10 Stealth Warp (Requires 10) = it's basically hide in plain sight
12 Weighty Influence (Requires 10) = increases sidereal bonus dice from d6 -> d8 and adds a skill

1 WF: Lunar Claws = +1 Atk rolls
3 Three Point Stance = reduce fall damage by 1d6 and don't fall prone
5 Fleet = +10 land speed
7 Effortless Aerobatics = flying up doesn't cost double
9 ???
11 ???
13 ???

Other Possible Feats: Nimble Moves, Scurry, Underfoot, ???

Dragonchess Player wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The key to really multi-classing in starfinder isn't using what the book says is the important stat for the class, but putting together abilities that work well together despite being lower level.


Classes like biohacker or envoy, where the "best" class features are mostly within the first 6-10 levels and usually static boosts, tend to work better than classes with more distinct scaling. Envoy in particular (Get 'Em, Dispiriting Taunt, Quick Dispiriting Taunt, Improved Get 'Em) works well in combination with a class based around standard actions (using a move action for the improvisation).

Another possibility is incorporating an archetype into one of the classes without affecting the class features of the other class.

Battle Leader seems like it would be a good one and/or Skyfire Centurion

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Failedlegend The Eternal Gish wrote:

Wonder if something similar to 2e DnD multi-classing would have fulfilled a similar role and made Shakalta unique
That is nearly gish classing, and was overpowered as heck so I'm not surprised its not available for a species in starfinder.

Sorry I wasnt clear i didnt mean 1 to 1 just something similar

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Failedlegend The Eternal Gish wrote:
Have they Devs ever said why they made Shakalta the way they did?
Probably so someone would try genuine multiclassing (as opposed to dips) in starfinder, which is usually pretty sub optimal.

Wonder if something similar to 2e DnD multi-classing would have fulfilled a similar role and made Shakalta unique

Have they Devs ever said why they made Shakalta the way they did?

Experimental Weapon Mech + Various Soldier Gear Boosts (ie. Brutal Blast) "stack" in that they both boost your damage dealt so + to damage is similar to what a single class soldier or mechanic would get and despite being a Mech has little use for Int assuming you avoid mech tricks that specifically use Int and/or use an archetype since those replace your tricks

Oooo Wrecking Fist is definitely a good option for a Martial Mystic, basically spell sergeant+imp unarmed fist rolled into 1 :)

Biohacker in general is a very strong multi-class even w/ just a single level and alot of their hacks dont have a DC

Soldier is nice for the Full BAB and extra feats alone and ill nose through the gear boosts to see what might be class level agnostic :)

Oh I forgot to mention, anything that changes what a stat can do is also useful such as the biohacker scientific method changing a bunch or int skills to wisdom or wisdom skills to int

Additionally, you can add your Intelligence modifier instead of your Wisdom modifier to Perception and Sense Motive checks.

Additionally, you can add your
Wisdom modifier instead of your Intelligence modifier to Life Science, Medicine, and Physical Science checks.

I just rediscovered that creature companions exist as well as several feats with even just ONE feat you can have a scaling pet thta you can share your actions with 1 to 1 so that can help offset so of the issues with playing a Shakalta (off the top of my head a mech can take something other than drone and act as a buffer/support for their buddy since its basically character level based with a smallish credit investment)

Feats: https://aonsrd.com/Feats.aspx?Category=Creature%20Companion
Companion Rules: https://aonsrd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=378

oops this posted twice for some reason, sorry

Hey all I'm trying to theorycraft a good build for the Two-Souled Shakalta (https://aonsrd.com/Races.aspx?ItemName=Shakalta) that have to 10/10 split multi-class (A,B,A,B,A,B,etc.) for w/e Adventure Path my group plays next (Currently playing Horizon of the Vast, already finished Fly Free or Die+Devastation Ark) so I could use some help gathering things that scale with character level, allow stacking between classes and/or rely primarily/solely on your Key Ability Score.

Ideally the two classes would be Wis and/or Cha based but not Int based since the races ability score mods are +2 Wis/Cha, -2 Int although you could choose options that dont really use Int so that could work. Obviously the classes that are Str, Dex or Con based can work.

Also I just played a Naive Power Armor Jockey SRO Experimental Armor Mechanic "Bruiser" (who used to be another mechanics drone, switched cause the OG mech was kind of a prick but everyone loved the drone) and I'm currently playing a Medic MysticX/Biohacker1 with a Druid/Psychic vibe that mixes mundane and magical medicine so ideally nothing too similar to those. With an innate Wis and/or Cha focus I'm leaning towards a party face but I'm pretty open to suggestion.

Some examples

Char Level Based:

Improved Unarmed Strike (Combat Feat)

Source Starfinder Core Rulebook pg. 158

You have trained to make your unarmed strikes lethal and strike with kicks, head-butts, and similar attacks.

Benefit: Your unarmed strike damage increases to 1d6 at 4th level, 2d6 at 8th level, 3d6 at 12th level, 5d6 at 15th level, and 7d6 at 20th level. Your unarmed strikes don’t count as archaic and can deal lethal damage. You threaten squares within your natural reach with your unarmed strikes even when you do not have a hand free for an unarmed strike. If you are immobilized, entangled, or unable to use both legs (or whatever appendages you have in place of legs, where appropriate), you lose the ability to make unarmed strikes without your hands. When making an unarmed strike without your hands, you can’t use such attacks for combat maneuvers or similar abilities—only to deal damage.

Normal: You don’t threaten any squares with unarmed strikes, and you must have a hand free to make an unarmed strike.

Mixed Class Stacking:

Mystic Flare (Su) (If a Mystic/Solarion)

Source Starfinder #30: Puppets Without Strings pg. 50

In your studies, you have benefited from a solarian tutor, who taught you how to draw power from the foundational forces of the universe. For you, a star’s corona or a black hole’s event horizon is a source of infinite energy. You gain a solar flare, as the solar manifestation ability of a solarian with a class level equal to your mystic level. If you have levels in both classes, you add them together to determine the effectiveness of your solar flare. You do not gain any other solar-flare solarian abilities from mystic class levels.

Key Ability Score Reliant:

Biohacker Booster/Inhibitors duration are 1+ Key ability mod and most lack a DC (a single level of biohacker is crazy cause of this)

here's what i have so far thanks to many peoples suggestions :)

Swarm Creatures: Ferrets, Dragons, Various Plants, Frogs, Owlcats, Bears, Monkeys, Birds, Giant extremely miniature space Hamsters (We are Boo!), Ashes/Dust/Sand/Dirt/Earth, Crystals, Gems, Oozes, Living Pixel Art, Beholders

Please keep em' coming you all are really helping my imagination run wild :)

Umbra-Arcturus wrote:

(1) Micro-machines (as opposed to nannites)

(2) a sapient collective of plankton or phytoplankton

(3) an accumulation of sentient motes of dust, sand, and soil

(4) something like a bacterial culture or viral mass, in line with an ooze or what have you

(5) a psychically extradimensional interlocking avatar of crystalline particulate

(6)...a Voltron of Doc Suess's Who's

3, 4 and 5 are definitely getting added to list :)

1) is too similar to my current character who is an SRO Power armor mechanic so i want to avoid robot/tech stuff

6) i a little too silly but it DID make me smile so bonus points for that

2) doesnt interest me for some reason, think i want to avoid something to similar to the fish swarm that inspired me

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Hey all, my home group is finishing up Devastation Ark which we started w/ the same characters we finished Fly Free or Die with. Next up is going to be Horizons of the Vast (Space Kingmaker on unexplored world) and I'll be playing a Neurochemist Biohacker1/Medic Empath Mystic11.

I REALLY like the idea of playing a sentient swarm but bugs freak me out so my DM is letting me have it made out of something else, off the top of my head i was thinking birds since i was going to have my characters voice be melodic like a choir in perfect harmony, but at normal human "inside voice" volume. My other thought was a variety of plants.

That said I'd like to hear some suggestions of what might be interesting but not too bug like (butterflies included :P)

Oh if it matters were going with Xenni-labs and i'm a sort of scientist/doctor and only the fluff is changing nothing mechanically. Here's the race: (each creature in the swarm fits roughly in a 1 inch cube)


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I don't think the group is interested in another system 2A (weakening the gods) is how i plan to start the campaign off.

oh and theres minor rumblings amongst the group aabout possible do a kind of kingmaker: rahadoum

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Tim Emrick wrote:

Rahadoum has a bizarre culture, even by Golarian standards. They have ample reasons to mistrust and avoid divine worship, but healing injuries, curing diseases, and defending themselves from evil outsiders (like the divs, who enjoy stilling up trouble throughout northern Garund) all become more difficult as a result.

For an interesting look into the Rahadoum mindset, I would recommend James Sutter's novel Death's Heretic and its sequel, The Redemption Engine. Neither is set in Rahadoum, but the main character is a former Pure Legionnaire who has gotten tangled up in conflicts between the gods thanks to a moment of crisis in his past.

Oooo thanks i'll check those out i also found a short blog post that involves rahadoum not sure if its canon though.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh2g?Tales-of-Lost-Omens-Question ing-Nature#29

Is this official canon, im hoping to run a home campaign in Rahadoum and i'm looking for as much lore as possible to work off of (i'm ignoring the whole slavery thing, getting a bit sick of it after running hells venegance want to focus on the divine bad stuff)

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There's not too much info about rahadoum and the only two modules i found (Port Godless & Heresy of Man) seem anti-rahadoum, what I do know is:

- Religions/Gods/Worship is straight up illegal caused by a massive religious war roughly 2000 years ago

- Despite the above a small amount of people still worship in secret

- Slavery is legal (planning to nix this since were currently playing hells vengeance and i'd rather not have that theme repeated)

- Outsiders/Dieities tend to use rahadoum as a "neutral ground" often causing issues such as having invisible fights

- Governed by the "Laws of Morality" but beyond "No gods" none of these laws have been stated by paizo

- Pirates from the shackles cause troubles alot especially with shipping goods south

- Shipping goods north is also an issue due to cheliax and their control of aroden's arch

- it's a haven for scientists, philosophers and other intellectuals

All that said my starting "hook" for the campaign will be something along the lines hunting down some secret religious sects and eventually meeting an outsider who tried to find a diety to follow but looked to closely and found out that regardless of alignment the gods of golarion are all pretty ****ed up (ie. Erastil punishes people by turning them into animals to be slaughtered, Cayden is a stalker, etc. etc.) so fled to rahadoum as the only place free of religion (as far as i know), eventually leading to the party trying to spread ragadoums way of doing things, possibly even running the dieties out of golarion (one idea is gaining control of the astral plane to prevent travel between the outer and material relam)

Note: This campaign won't be canon even for my home game its just a little fun for my players and a campaign type ive always wanted to play or DM so I don't mind bending the lore (ie. exaggerating the dieties faults)

So yeah anyone ever done or have any ideas/suggestions a misothiest/god killer campaign have any ideas (please don't reply if all your going to say is "gods can't be killed. etc.")

Diego Rossi wrote:

It is a ranged touch attack. There aren't rules for voluntarily reducing your AC against those.

Your ally can act to lower it, deciding not to dodge and reducing his AC like he had dex 1 or 0, and no dodge but the involuntary effects, like the deflection bonus of items from items or from spells, can't be lowered without removing the item or canceling the spell.
Furthermore, it is an action, probably a free one, so it will be started during the character turn and continue until the character act again, so in the next turn. Not a good idea if there is an enemy present.

By your logic people shouldn't be able to choose to automatically fail against spells INCLUDING harmless one without choosing to do so for the whole turn

Oh i'm not worried about the "attack roll" from the spell itself im worried about hitting them with the card carrying said spell.

So i'm planning to play a cartomancer/harrower witch and i've realized this would allow me to imbue my "card darts" w/ Cure X Wounds spells but I can't find anything online or in my books about attacking a willing ally.

My assumption is a willing target could choose to be flat-footed and thus it would be AC 10 in most cases (since its already a touch attack)

What do you guys think?

I thought the tightrope might be interesting to walk if i can get a DM thats willing and/or excited to play with that, maybe even challenge me as long as the outcome isn't guaranteed failure (not referring to Anti-Paladin/Pally specifically no idea what normally anti-thetical classes I'd go for)

Hmmmm...I know there's an ex-paladin archetype called "Vindictive Bastard" (Personally I find that name doesn't suit its abilities, it seems more hey dont mess w/ my friends than GRRRR REVENGE!!!) is there an ex-anti-paladin archetype?...i think that would be interesting and thematically appropriate (obviously if/when i actually make a character with this i'd have to find the ex-archetype for w/e classes are involved)

The alignment step limitation is a bummer for SS (its really weird imo that SS doesn't directly nix that) and yeah Dark Lantern could work but definitely isn't RAW since the both alter dual identity.

Thanks Avr outcome isn't what I was hoping for but hasn't completely killed my plans for this class, just gotta reign the alignment norm breaking in a bit (ie. Lawful Barbarian would work since they can be any non-lawful)

Edit: Ooooof and there's Name Violation with part 2 of a 1,2 punch combo to the only hope of an f'd up Pally/Blackguard combo. Phbbbttt. Truly dead now :P. Ironically this MIGHT actually answers my ex-antipaladin archetype question cause unless it has it's own it's technically ALSO Vindictive Bastard lol (it doesn't work RAW but its a fairly easy house rule)

Still opens up some interesting possibilities to less diametrically opposed classes that could never be combined in PF otherwise. (Also learning about Dark Lantern and some similar alignment breaking archetypes was also helpful)

Sidenote: I've always found it weird that the LG and CE alignments are considered the extremes, it seems to me that the half neutral alignments should be the extremes since their so much more focused on a single alignment.

Oh and Would the Anti-Paladin half being a Tyrant or Insinuator change either of your answers? Why or Why not?

I'm honestly just curious/trying to understand (one of the reasons i'm using a fake character so i don't get protective :P) otherwise the SS archetype seems to do nothing but take your vigilante abilities away from your social form and force you to take quick/immediate change.

1) I would contest "Willingly" a Paladin doesn't fall because he was dominated into smacking his buddy around and Splintersoul is essentially two different people in the same way DID (more commonly recognized as split personality) is IRL.

That said even w/o domination an Anti-Paladin doesn't fall because he healed an ally. There's a VERY important caveat in the Anti-Paladin Code that says "This does not mean that an antipaladin cannot take actions someone else might qualify as good, only that such actions must always be in service of his own dark end" so really Paladin is the bigger issue so as long as my "Masked" version doesn't go around kicking puppies and murdering orphans i should be fine. (Paladin code includes this as well "otherwise, he can do whatever else he feels is necessary to uphold the causes of law and good. He should strive to act with honor and uphold the tenets of his faith, but failing to do so is not a violation of his code.")

Kind of like a non-neutral "Masked" druid would still work but still can't wear metal or a monk still cant wear armor w/o losing Wis to AC(

2) Seems like neither mention Neutral, Law or Chaos as an "Falling" issue. (Hence why Paladin's of Desna exist) Lawful Good doesn't mean Lawful Nice. In fact in my Paladin of Abadar example (which to be fair you may not have seen before you posted) he's kind of a dick (aka stick up his butt) and a prude. His Anti-Paladin side is kind of representative of everything he's suppressed and ironically is probably actually nicer even though he's definitely not "Good" (Note: this isn't a real character its just for discussion)

ok i fixed it, same question...A? B? C? D? E?

In regards to "Evil Act" just being an Anti-Paladin isn't inherently evil (since were ignoring alignments due to Splintersoul) so for the sake of argument your a Paladin of i dunno Abadar (doesn't really matter for the question) and an Anti-Paladin of Calistria your Paladin is a stick up his butt prude and your "Masked" version is all about free love etc.

o yeah i guess it would be a Vigilante/Paladin/Anti-pally...derp...lemme fix that

Technically all 3 so thanks lol :D

1) I appreciate some more opinions on this im reading it as fanatical stare changes penalty > bonus and foe > ally. I prefer not to rely on our groups flexibility too much if i can avoid it (ie. they COULD say no :P)

2) I was a bit worried about supporting a mixed group and who it would actually fit...speaking of which how long does a stare last for i cant find a duration, it says it take concentration but is like like spell concentration or what?

3) I'm just in general having a hard time choosing which will be the most fun to play. The only thing I know is i dont really want to use a weapon/be a blaster but i do want something roughly as ongoing and helpful as inspire courage (and preferably similar)

4) I'm not too worried "wiping the floor" our group tends to make some wacky characters and its not like the module is being left as is (also RoW is known to be a bit brutal as well)

Basically just the title, I've mostly ignored this class since its not very party friendly (which may be a faulty judgement on my part) unless your just going to be in your vigilante form for battle and social in town which imo kind of defeats the purpose but vigilante soul intrigued me but before I go making some crazy build I want to make sure I know how it works first.

For the sake of this question I'm going to use something absurd an SS Vigilante/Paladin/Anti-pally and before you ignore this post i swear it makes sense. Here's the ability thats relevant.

Splintered Identity (Ex): A splintersoul’s two identities are even more distant from one another than those of a normal vigilante. He cannot use any of his vigilante talents while in his social identity.

However, for the purpose of qualifying for classes, feats, and other abilities, he is eligible if one of his alignments meets the requirements.

So if I'm reading this correctly it breaks the usual alignment restrictions so as mister bill murray would say “Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!”

So yeah HOW exactly does that work in practice. Let's say your a 20th Lvl Pally/Anti-Pally/SS Vigilante.

Is it?

A) Social = Paladin 10/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Anti Pally 8/SS Vigilante 2


B) Social = Paladin 10/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Paladin 10/Anti-Pally 8/SS Vigilante 2


C) Social = Paladin 18/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Anti-Pally 18/SS Vigilante 2


D) Social = Paladin 10/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Fallen aka Vindictive Bastard Paladin 10/Anti-Pally 8/SS Vigilante 2


E) Something else

I honestly don't think it's C as interesting as that could, I'm mainly reading it as B or possibly D) but what do you guys think?

Note: I'm also asking essentially the same question for a Bard/Paladin, a Barbarian/Monk, an Anti-Pally/Monk, etc., etc. Anti-Pally/Pally just seemed the most extreme example.

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