Failedlegend The Eternal Gish's page

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John Mangrum wrote:

New options by class:

Biohackers: 1 alt class feature, 2 fields of study, 5 theorems
Envoys: 4 improvisations, 6 expertise talents
Mechanics: 1 alt class feature, 2 drone chassis, 2 basic drone mods, 2 advanced drone mods, 6 mechanic tricks
Nanocytes: 15 knacks
Operatives: 1 alt class feature, 2 specializations, 7 exploits
Precogs: 1 anchor, 11 temporal anomalies
Soldiers: 2 fighting styles, 4 gear boosts
Witchwarpers: 1 new option that applies to all witchwarpers

In addition, every spellcasting class gets new spells.

Nothing for Vanguard or Solarion? (Technomancers too but they got new spells at least)

RiverMesa wrote:

- Legacy: dwarf, elf, half-elf, half-orc, gnome, halfling

I really hope they DON'T bother with the legacy species, I actively avoid the species that you can play in pathfinder, if they address them at all a side bar for official rules to transfer over alt racial traits from pathfinder would suffice imo.

I hope they focus solely on the Starfinder specific races sans the ones that already have alot of alt options.

So lets see if I won a contest to choose all 25 races my first step (after removing legacy races) would be to look at what races have NO alt racials.

WOW!!! Thats still EIGHTY SIX!! races...damn...I knew Starfinder had alot of them but DAMN!!! You go Paizo thats easily over 100 in total.

Well I gotta narrow this down somehow...Well this IS my imaginary contest and opinion so I'll start by nixing all the “bug-like” races (except spathinae ill explain later), that should cut it down a fair amount.

That only brings us down to 76...weird I could have sworn there was way more “bug-like” races ok next hopefully big chunk, races that are either just not “alien” enough (ie. If they were still on the list elves would be removed but vesk would stay for example) or races that may as well be legacy races like the Ferran are VERY similar to Dwarves. Races that have interesting features like the Brakim's removable limbs are exceptions (even though i'm not a huge fan of that race so it might be removed later)

Hmmm...still only brings it down to 67...time to just start removing any races left I don't find interesting/don't like for w/e reason (non-mechanical cause alt racials could fix that, ie. Shakalta)

OK down to 50...still twice as many as the book will have, next lets try to match up races that are similar and choose 1 of each.

After that I still had a few more than 25 so had to remove them and I ended up with the following race, I added some notes of what I'd like to see (alt racials and/or alt stats are assumed for all but im specific with some)

1. Astrazoan – One of my fav races, alt stats please :) oh and official ruling on whether or not monstrous humanoids count as humanoids for shapeshifting purposes.

2. Borai – Clarify why a Ysoki Borai is suddenly medium (or more likely fix the wording so it says that they are their original races size), please expand old talents to cover more races.

3. Brenneri – Their adorable that is all :D

4. Contemplative – just an interesting race id like to know more about

5. Copaxi – not much specific just wanna know more about them

6. Dragonkin – would like to see medium and small variants

7. Dromada - id like to know more about em

8. Entu Colony – Ooze race is definitely unique had a hard time choosing between this and Selamid so honestly either would make me happy to see

9. Entu Symbiote – EXTREMELY versatile race both fluff wise and mechanically (can be any animal, size, special movement type, natural attack) would like to see alt stats to match that fluff/mechanical flexibility.

10. Hortus – not much to say here, just like mushroom people

11. Ixtangi – LOTS of abilities = LOTS of options for alt traits

12. Jububnan – just an interesting race id like to know more about

13. Raxilite – adding rules to play a “family” (2-4) of these guys to utilize LFAN symbiosis would be cool otherwise just one of my fav races

14. Scyphozoan – just an interesting race id like to know more about

15. Seprevoi – always had a weak spot for quadrupeds and this one is medium so much more party friendly (medium variants of the larger quadrepeds would work too)

16. Shakalta – Awesome race (twin soul beings made of LIGHT!!) ruined by forced 10/10 multi-class (which was a good IDEA, just executed horribly/not well supported), either add an alt racial to replace that or add more multi-class friendly/char level based abilities/feats (make them require you to be a Shakalta so you have more freedom), or maybe have them level faster or something I dunno.

17. Shatori – Love these guys, just interesting such an interesting ascetic/design

18. Shimreen - just an interesting race id like to know more about

19. Spathinae – this is special I cant stand bugs but i LOVE the idea of a swarm PC please add some alt traits for “Vermin-like” that let you be different swarms (for example thanks to a very nice DM I was allowed to play a Spathinae that was a mix of plants and animals, it was basically a flying [no legs, four arms] sentient ecosystem....was Plant-like instead of Vermin-like)

20. SRO – When it comes to the "robot" races SRO are the most flexible and are even more underdogs/mistreated than androids are.

21. Stellifera – just an interesting race id like to know more about

22. Telia - just an interesting race id like to know more about

23. Tromlin Bloodseeker - just an interesting race id like to know more about

24. Urog – Not really sure how to categorize these guys but they seem really interesting and alot of the art ive seen makes them look really cute.

25. Worlanisi – wanna know more about this inherently lucky race

Gaulin wrote:
I love the evolutionist to death, I'm crazy excited for it. But I don't think mad scientist should be limited to one class - it's a broad enough category that there could be subclasses like it for every existing class. Kind of like how casters bled into other classes in galactic magic.

Paizo's history says they will likely add alt class features and/or archetypes that allow each other class to access some abilities from/similar to evolutionist in the same book or shortly after.

Leon Aquilla wrote:

>There's also a system for easily creating your own playable species

Finally, I can make SF-legal centaurs. <3

To be fair there IS several Quadrupedal races already but yeah i'm stoked for the custom race creator too. SF Society will likely ban it though :(

The NPC wrote:

"A new class, the evolutionist, allows you to transform yourself over time into an eldritch being, mechanized construct, sepulchral undead, or riot of biological potential, each with unique abilities—and drawbacks, should you allow your transformation to grow out of control."

Where have you been? Where have you been? Damn you! Where have you been?...How dare you! How dare you come to me now, when I am this!

Been checking out the playtest recently (a friend wants to try it out in one of our games) and I'm really disappointed in eldritch....seriously spell resistance on a class feature that makes you want to be around allied casters is just so counter intuitive.

Glad to hear their making it a inherently full BAB class though.

Fluff wise I love all four of the current "paths"

Gaulin wrote:
Alternate racial traits are always great. I also loved the species grafts in the last alien archive, would also fit well in this book (I mean as much augment support as we can get would be great in a book with evolutionist)

I love the species grafts too, would love more, as for more augments in general you gotta assume they'll add more with the evolutionist otherwise it would be like if Galactic Magic has no new spells/casters in it.

Necrografts ESPECIALLY need support there so few of them.

As a person making a Vehicle Mechanic for our next campaign once we finish Horizon of the Vast I REALLY hope to see new modifications, etc. in this

Damn I got so excited about a fun idea I didn't even consider the problem of roofs, I'll have to check with my GM to see if that'll be viable otherwise that does completely bork the idea. Dammit.

Thanks for all the help nonetheless, if it gets shelved the idea will be kept for a more open terrain campaign.

Claxon wrote:

I did not realize effortless acrobatics helped fly speed.

I just assumed it was related to (more normal) acrobatic things. Kind of ignoring that acrobatics absorbed the fly skill, and so it might include flight related things under such a feat name.

Effortless AERObatics ;D Easy mistake to make and I may have even mispelled it in previous posts


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Needs a friend with a flying drone named "Top Rope"


I could buy one of these, he can film my exploits :)


Assuming I fail encourage someone to play a mech w/ a flying drone or vehicle :P

Oh that ALSO reminds me that theres augmentations that increase your land speed which would increase my defy gravity speed since its based on my land speed so I'll be sure to invest in those ASAP.

Speed Suspension Lvl 4/8/12: +10/20/30ft Respectively

https://www.aonsrd.com/Cybernetics.aspx?ItemName=Minimal&Family=Speed%2 0Suspension

I can even put these in prosthetic limbs so hideaway limbs would help me hide stuff :)

Claxon wrote:

To be honest I don't think 3 point stance will help you all that much.

It prevents damage, but the damage you would take is how you get bonus damage. I guess if you would fall from too high it could mitigate the damage beyond what Heavy Landing would absorb, but honestly you're not going to have to worry about that too much. You only take 1d6 of damage per 10ft fallen. You speed is 40ft, but remember under normal conditions every square of movement up costs an additional 5ft of movement. So, if you're on the ground, you will only be able to fly up 20ft. Meaning you will only get 2d6 of falling damage, which will average to 7 points of damage. Which will completely absorb at level 7. Sure, you can find some ways to boost your movement speed and probably get up to 30ft in the air for 3d6 eventually, which will let you add 10.5 points of damage on average.

Even at low levels this simply isn't a good tactic.

It's not bad if you could start combat while flying 30ft in the air and just use this to start combats with some extra bonuses, but defy gravity wont let you do that.

3pt. Stance is mainly for the never fall prone part and the extra 1d6 reduction is only there IF my heavy landing doesn't reduce the whole thing, I don't know what RAW would insist that the 1d6 damage would be removed BEFORE heavy landing but if the GM rules it that way ill just take Improved Kip-up that lets you stand as a reaction and eventually as a free action.

As for moving up effortless aerobatics removes the half speed problem (When flying, it costs you no additional feet of movement to ascend.) and I get +10 from fleet (devy gravity uses my land speed) and being gravity attuned gets me a further +10ft which = 50ft Fly speed totalling 6D6.

That said I might take Effortless Aerobatics at Lvl 5 than fleet at 7 instead of the other way around so I don't have to fly half-speed even for the 1 level (level 6).

Claxon wrote:
You're not usually going to fall that often

Lvl 1 to 5 will be a bit difficult as I'll rely on terrain (to jump off of) and acrobatics to jump but I pick up Defy gravity at Lvl 6 which lets me fly for a single move than it specifically says that if I don't end my movement on solid ground I fall, so it's move -> fall -> stab. Three point stand makes it so i NEVER fall prone and before that I can utilize Ysoki's moxie to stand as a swift action.

Claxon wrote:

Remember, at level 7 you get a reduced penalty for making a full attack and at level 13 you get to make 3 melee attacks instead of 2.

I just can't see a way to make Heavy Landing your main thing without handicapping yourself.

This I can't argue with I realize its not optimal which is why I'm trying to optimize it as much as possible so its not so bad I'm useless.

Garretmander wrote:

About the only way to make it useful (but not your main thing) is to have a good thrown weapon/ranged weapon, and then use defy gravity to get above targets when you need to double move to close the range, and can't get close enough to attack or can't charge.

Then throw, finish the move next turn and get the bonus damage as you continue to close in. That way you get to attack every turn, and get the bonus damage.

But... you won't be doing this every combat, so trying to further spec into it seems... of dubious value. Even worse, you probably won't be fully attuned when you use the revelations, so you won't get the bonus +cha modifier from heavy landing, just what it prevented.

I don't really understand what your saying here

1) How am I double moving than making a ranged attack?
2) Heavy Landing only affects melee attacks not ranged ones
3) Why wouldn't I be fully attuned, I'd be fully attuned by the start of the 3rd rd. and I'm a Broken Cycle so I have little reason to break attunement.
4) To be fair I have a feeling the cha to damage from soulfire fusion and the cha to damage from heavy landing probably don't stack assuming double stacking the same stat is a no go like in pathfinder.

This started as a build to try out the new Broken Cycle Solarion but than I fell in love with the Heavy Landing ability. Otherwise the theme is "Shadow Solarion" (shame the "blade in the night" revelation sucks) anyways this is what I have so far.

Note: This Build assumes Max Lvl 13
Note2: Since this is a Broken cycle build being attuned is basically assumed to be always = true in combat and fully attuned only a few rounds in. Same w/ sidereal influence outside of combat.

Broken Cycle Solarion w/ Lunar Weapon

Race: Skilled Nograv Ysoki (+4 Dex, -2 Con)

Theme: Athlete (Acrobatics, what starfinder sport? thinking Brutaris?) or Noble Scion (Heir or Legacy member of a Jedi-like group) or ???
Deity: Accelsys (character is obsessed with speed and mobility)
Skill Adept: Disguise and Bluff (Just makes them class skills)
Sidereal Influence: Disguise & Sense Motive, Add Stealth @ Lvl 11, Add Bluff @ Lvl 12 (+1d6 to skill checks)

Str 10 +2 (Stat up @ 10) = 12
Dex 16 +2 (Stat up @ 5)+ 4 (augment) = 22
Con 10 +4 (Stat Up @ 5 & 10) = 14
Int 10 +4 (Stat up @ 5 & 10) = 14
Wis 10 +2 (Stat up @ 10) = 12
Cha 16 +2 (Stat up@ 5)+ 2 (augment) = 20

Stat up 5 = Dex, Cha, Con and Int (@5) - Catch up Percep/Disguise
Stat up 10 = Con, Str, Wis and Int (@10) – Add ??? Skill

Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Sense Motive, Stealth & Alternate Perception/Disguise until Lvl 5

Equip: Solarion "Claw" w/ ??? Crystal and Soulfire Infusion (adds cha to damage)

2 Heavy Landing (Requires 2) = Reduce fall damage by lvl than add that damage to your next melee attack, add cha mod to this extra damage as well if fully attuned
4 Eclipse Defense (Requires 4) = reduce melee attack damage by 1/2 if you beat KAC+4 w/ melee atk
6 Defy Gravity (Requires 6) = fly for a single move action (use land speed+10ft) than fall if not on solid ground, its basically force jump, I intend to purposefully "fall" to mix it with Heavy landing+Three Point Stance
8 Warp Perception (Requires 6) = reduce disguise DC by up to half lvl
9 Weapon Orbit (Requires 6) = can throw melee weapons as an attack than have them return
10 Stealth Warp (Requires 10) = it's basically hide in plain sight
12 Weighty Influence (Requires 10) = increases sidereal bonus dice from d6 -> d8 and adds a skill

1 WF: Lunar Claws = +1 Atk rolls
3 Three Point Stance = reduce fall damage by 1d6 and don't fall prone
5 Fleet = +10 land speed
7 Effortless Aerobatics = flying up doesn't cost double
9 ???
11 ???
13 ???

Other Possible Feats: Nimble Moves, Scurry, Underfoot, ???

Dragonchess Player wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The key to really multi-classing in starfinder isn't using what the book says is the important stat for the class, but putting together abilities that work well together despite being lower level.


Classes like biohacker or envoy, where the "best" class features are mostly within the first 6-10 levels and usually static boosts, tend to work better than classes with more distinct scaling. Envoy in particular (Get 'Em, Dispiriting Taunt, Quick Dispiriting Taunt, Improved Get 'Em) works well in combination with a class based around standard actions (using a move action for the improvisation).

Another possibility is incorporating an archetype into one of the classes without affecting the class features of the other class.

Battle Leader seems like it would be a good one and/or Skyfire Centurion

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Failedlegend The Eternal Gish wrote:

Wonder if something similar to 2e DnD multi-classing would have fulfilled a similar role and made Shakalta unique
That is nearly gish classing, and was overpowered as heck so I'm not surprised its not available for a species in starfinder.

Sorry I wasnt clear i didnt mean 1 to 1 just something similar

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Failedlegend The Eternal Gish wrote:
Have they Devs ever said why they made Shakalta the way they did?
Probably so someone would try genuine multiclassing (as opposed to dips) in starfinder, which is usually pretty sub optimal.

Wonder if something similar to 2e DnD multi-classing would have fulfilled a similar role and made Shakalta unique

Have they Devs ever said why they made Shakalta the way they did?

Experimental Weapon Mech + Various Soldier Gear Boosts (ie. Brutal Blast) "stack" in that they both boost your damage dealt so + to damage is similar to what a single class soldier or mechanic would get and despite being a Mech has little use for Int assuming you avoid mech tricks that specifically use Int and/or use an archetype since those replace your tricks

Oooo Wrecking Fist is definitely a good option for a Martial Mystic, basically spell sergeant+imp unarmed fist rolled into 1 :)

Biohacker in general is a very strong multi-class even w/ just a single level and alot of their hacks dont have a DC

Soldier is nice for the Full BAB and extra feats alone and ill nose through the gear boosts to see what might be class level agnostic :)

Oh I forgot to mention, anything that changes what a stat can do is also useful such as the biohacker scientific method changing a bunch or int skills to wisdom or wisdom skills to int

Additionally, you can add your Intelligence modifier instead of your Wisdom modifier to Perception and Sense Motive checks.

Additionally, you can add your
Wisdom modifier instead of your Intelligence modifier to Life Science, Medicine, and Physical Science checks.

I just rediscovered that creature companions exist as well as several feats with even just ONE feat you can have a scaling pet thta you can share your actions with 1 to 1 so that can help offset so of the issues with playing a Shakalta (off the top of my head a mech can take something other than drone and act as a buffer/support for their buddy since its basically character level based with a smallish credit investment)

Feats: https://aonsrd.com/Feats.aspx?Category=Creature%20Companion
Companion Rules: https://aonsrd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=378

oops this posted twice for some reason, sorry

Hey all I'm trying to theorycraft a good build for the Two-Souled Shakalta (https://aonsrd.com/Races.aspx?ItemName=Shakalta) that have to 10/10 split multi-class (A,B,A,B,A,B,etc.) for w/e Adventure Path my group plays next (Currently playing Horizon of the Vast, already finished Fly Free or Die+Devastation Ark) so I could use some help gathering things that scale with character level, allow stacking between classes and/or rely primarily/solely on your Key Ability Score.

Ideally the two classes would be Wis and/or Cha based but not Int based since the races ability score mods are +2 Wis/Cha, -2 Int although you could choose options that dont really use Int so that could work. Obviously the classes that are Str, Dex or Con based can work.

Also I just played a Naive Power Armor Jockey SRO Experimental Armor Mechanic "Bruiser" (who used to be another mechanics drone, switched cause the OG mech was kind of a prick but everyone loved the drone) and I'm currently playing a Medic MysticX/Biohacker1 with a Druid/Psychic vibe that mixes mundane and magical medicine so ideally nothing too similar to those. With an innate Wis and/or Cha focus I'm leaning towards a party face but I'm pretty open to suggestion.

Some examples

Char Level Based:

Improved Unarmed Strike (Combat Feat)

Source Starfinder Core Rulebook pg. 158

You have trained to make your unarmed strikes lethal and strike with kicks, head-butts, and similar attacks.

Benefit: Your unarmed strike damage increases to 1d6 at 4th level, 2d6 at 8th level, 3d6 at 12th level, 5d6 at 15th level, and 7d6 at 20th level. Your unarmed strikes don’t count as archaic and can deal lethal damage. You threaten squares within your natural reach with your unarmed strikes even when you do not have a hand free for an unarmed strike. If you are immobilized, entangled, or unable to use both legs (or whatever appendages you have in place of legs, where appropriate), you lose the ability to make unarmed strikes without your hands. When making an unarmed strike without your hands, you can’t use such attacks for combat maneuvers or similar abilities—only to deal damage.

Normal: You don’t threaten any squares with unarmed strikes, and you must have a hand free to make an unarmed strike.

Mixed Class Stacking:

Mystic Flare (Su) (If a Mystic/Solarion)

Source Starfinder #30: Puppets Without Strings pg. 50

In your studies, you have benefited from a solarian tutor, who taught you how to draw power from the foundational forces of the universe. For you, a star’s corona or a black hole’s event horizon is a source of infinite energy. You gain a solar flare, as the solar manifestation ability of a solarian with a class level equal to your mystic level. If you have levels in both classes, you add them together to determine the effectiveness of your solar flare. You do not gain any other solar-flare solarian abilities from mystic class levels.

Key Ability Score Reliant:

Biohacker Booster/Inhibitors duration are 1+ Key ability mod and most lack a DC (a single level of biohacker is crazy cause of this)

here's what i have so far thanks to many peoples suggestions :)

Swarm Creatures: Ferrets, Dragons, Various Plants, Frogs, Owlcats, Bears, Monkeys, Birds, Giant extremely miniature space Hamsters (We are Boo!), Ashes/Dust/Sand/Dirt/Earth, Crystals, Gems, Oozes, Living Pixel Art, Beholders

Please keep em' coming you all are really helping my imagination run wild :)

Umbra-Arcturus wrote:

(1) Micro-machines (as opposed to nannites)

(2) a sapient collective of plankton or phytoplankton

(3) an accumulation of sentient motes of dust, sand, and soil

(4) something like a bacterial culture or viral mass, in line with an ooze or what have you

(5) a psychically extradimensional interlocking avatar of crystalline particulate

(6)...a Voltron of Doc Suess's Who's

3, 4 and 5 are definitely getting added to list :)

1) is too similar to my current character who is an SRO Power armor mechanic so i want to avoid robot/tech stuff

6) i a little too silly but it DID make me smile so bonus points for that

2) doesnt interest me for some reason, think i want to avoid something to similar to the fish swarm that inspired me

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Hey all, my home group is finishing up Devastation Ark which we started w/ the same characters we finished Fly Free or Die with. Next up is going to be Horizons of the Vast (Space Kingmaker on unexplored world) and I'll be playing a Neurochemist Biohacker1/Medic Empath Mystic11.

I REALLY like the idea of playing a sentient swarm but bugs freak me out so my DM is letting me have it made out of something else, off the top of my head i was thinking birds since i was going to have my characters voice be melodic like a choir in perfect harmony, but at normal human "inside voice" volume. My other thought was a variety of plants.

That said I'd like to hear some suggestions of what might be interesting but not too bug like (butterflies included :P)

Oh if it matters were going with Xenni-labs and i'm a sort of scientist/doctor and only the fluff is changing nothing mechanically. Here's the race: (each creature in the swarm fits roughly in a 1 inch cube)


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I don't think the group is interested in another system 2A (weakening the gods) is how i plan to start the campaign off.

oh and theres minor rumblings amongst the group aabout possible do a kind of kingmaker: rahadoum

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Tim Emrick wrote:

Rahadoum has a bizarre culture, even by Golarian standards. They have ample reasons to mistrust and avoid divine worship, but healing injuries, curing diseases, and defending themselves from evil outsiders (like the divs, who enjoy stilling up trouble throughout northern Garund) all become more difficult as a result.

For an interesting look into the Rahadoum mindset, I would recommend James Sutter's novel Death's Heretic and its sequel, The Redemption Engine. Neither is set in Rahadoum, but the main character is a former Pure Legionnaire who has gotten tangled up in conflicts between the gods thanks to a moment of crisis in his past.

Oooo thanks i'll check those out i also found a short blog post that involves rahadoum not sure if its canon though.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh2g?Tales-of-Lost-Omens-Question ing-Nature#29

Is this official canon, im hoping to run a home campaign in Rahadoum and i'm looking for as much lore as possible to work off of (i'm ignoring the whole slavery thing, getting a bit sick of it after running hells venegance want to focus on the divine bad stuff)

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There's not too much info about rahadoum and the only two modules i found (Port Godless & Heresy of Man) seem anti-rahadoum, what I do know is:

- Religions/Gods/Worship is straight up illegal caused by a massive religious war roughly 2000 years ago

- Despite the above a small amount of people still worship in secret

- Slavery is legal (planning to nix this since were currently playing hells vengeance and i'd rather not have that theme repeated)

- Outsiders/Dieities tend to use rahadoum as a "neutral ground" often causing issues such as having invisible fights

- Governed by the "Laws of Morality" but beyond "No gods" none of these laws have been stated by paizo

- Pirates from the shackles cause troubles alot especially with shipping goods south

- Shipping goods north is also an issue due to cheliax and their control of aroden's arch

- it's a haven for scientists, philosophers and other intellectuals

All that said my starting "hook" for the campaign will be something along the lines hunting down some secret religious sects and eventually meeting an outsider who tried to find a diety to follow but looked to closely and found out that regardless of alignment the gods of golarion are all pretty ****ed up (ie. Erastil punishes people by turning them into animals to be slaughtered, Cayden is a stalker, etc. etc.) so fled to rahadoum as the only place free of religion (as far as i know), eventually leading to the party trying to spread ragadoums way of doing things, possibly even running the dieties out of golarion (one idea is gaining control of the astral plane to prevent travel between the outer and material relam)

Note: This campaign won't be canon even for my home game its just a little fun for my players and a campaign type ive always wanted to play or DM so I don't mind bending the lore (ie. exaggerating the dieties faults)

So yeah anyone ever done or have any ideas/suggestions a misothiest/god killer campaign have any ideas (please don't reply if all your going to say is "gods can't be killed. etc.")

Diego Rossi wrote:

It is a ranged touch attack. There aren't rules for voluntarily reducing your AC against those.

Your ally can act to lower it, deciding not to dodge and reducing his AC like he had dex 1 or 0, and no dodge but the involuntary effects, like the deflection bonus of items from items or from spells, can't be lowered without removing the item or canceling the spell.
Furthermore, it is an action, probably a free one, so it will be started during the character turn and continue until the character act again, so in the next turn. Not a good idea if there is an enemy present.

By your logic people shouldn't be able to choose to automatically fail against spells INCLUDING harmless one without choosing to do so for the whole turn

Oh i'm not worried about the "attack roll" from the spell itself im worried about hitting them with the card carrying said spell.

So i'm planning to play a cartomancer/harrower witch and i've realized this would allow me to imbue my "card darts" w/ Cure X Wounds spells but I can't find anything online or in my books about attacking a willing ally.

My assumption is a willing target could choose to be flat-footed and thus it would be AC 10 in most cases (since its already a touch attack)

What do you guys think?

I thought the tightrope might be interesting to walk if i can get a DM thats willing and/or excited to play with that, maybe even challenge me as long as the outcome isn't guaranteed failure (not referring to Anti-Paladin/Pally specifically no idea what normally anti-thetical classes I'd go for)

Hmmmm...I know there's an ex-paladin archetype called "Vindictive Bastard" (Personally I find that name doesn't suit its abilities, it seems more hey dont mess w/ my friends than GRRRR REVENGE!!!) is there an ex-anti-paladin archetype?...i think that would be interesting and thematically appropriate (obviously if/when i actually make a character with this i'd have to find the ex-archetype for w/e classes are involved)

The alignment step limitation is a bummer for SS (its really weird imo that SS doesn't directly nix that) and yeah Dark Lantern could work but definitely isn't RAW since the both alter dual identity.

Thanks Avr outcome isn't what I was hoping for but hasn't completely killed my plans for this class, just gotta reign the alignment norm breaking in a bit (ie. Lawful Barbarian would work since they can be any non-lawful)

Edit: Ooooof and there's Name Violation with part 2 of a 1,2 punch combo to the only hope of an f'd up Pally/Blackguard combo. Phbbbttt. Truly dead now :P. Ironically this MIGHT actually answers my ex-antipaladin archetype question cause unless it has it's own it's technically ALSO Vindictive Bastard lol (it doesn't work RAW but its a fairly easy house rule)

Still opens up some interesting possibilities to less diametrically opposed classes that could never be combined in PF otherwise. (Also learning about Dark Lantern and some similar alignment breaking archetypes was also helpful)

Sidenote: I've always found it weird that the LG and CE alignments are considered the extremes, it seems to me that the half neutral alignments should be the extremes since their so much more focused on a single alignment.

Oh and Would the Anti-Paladin half being a Tyrant or Insinuator change either of your answers? Why or Why not?

I'm honestly just curious/trying to understand (one of the reasons i'm using a fake character so i don't get protective :P) otherwise the SS archetype seems to do nothing but take your vigilante abilities away from your social form and force you to take quick/immediate change.

1) I would contest "Willingly" a Paladin doesn't fall because he was dominated into smacking his buddy around and Splintersoul is essentially two different people in the same way DID (more commonly recognized as split personality) is IRL.

That said even w/o domination an Anti-Paladin doesn't fall because he healed an ally. There's a VERY important caveat in the Anti-Paladin Code that says "This does not mean that an antipaladin cannot take actions someone else might qualify as good, only that such actions must always be in service of his own dark end" so really Paladin is the bigger issue so as long as my "Masked" version doesn't go around kicking puppies and murdering orphans i should be fine. (Paladin code includes this as well "otherwise, he can do whatever else he feels is necessary to uphold the causes of law and good. He should strive to act with honor and uphold the tenets of his faith, but failing to do so is not a violation of his code.")

Kind of like a non-neutral "Masked" druid would still work but still can't wear metal or a monk still cant wear armor w/o losing Wis to AC(

2) Seems like neither mention Neutral, Law or Chaos as an "Falling" issue. (Hence why Paladin's of Desna exist) Lawful Good doesn't mean Lawful Nice. In fact in my Paladin of Abadar example (which to be fair you may not have seen before you posted) he's kind of a dick (aka stick up his butt) and a prude. His Anti-Paladin side is kind of representative of everything he's suppressed and ironically is probably actually nicer even though he's definitely not "Good" (Note: this isn't a real character its just for discussion)

ok i fixed it, same question...A? B? C? D? E?

In regards to "Evil Act" just being an Anti-Paladin isn't inherently evil (since were ignoring alignments due to Splintersoul) so for the sake of argument your a Paladin of i dunno Abadar (doesn't really matter for the question) and an Anti-Paladin of Calistria your Paladin is a stick up his butt prude and your "Masked" version is all about free love etc.

o yeah i guess it would be a Vigilante/Paladin/Anti-pally...derp...lemme fix that

Technically all 3 so thanks lol :D

1) I appreciate some more opinions on this im reading it as fanatical stare changes penalty > bonus and foe > ally. I prefer not to rely on our groups flexibility too much if i can avoid it (ie. they COULD say no :P)

2) I was a bit worried about supporting a mixed group and who it would actually fit...speaking of which how long does a stare last for i cant find a duration, it says it take concentration but is like like spell concentration or what?

3) I'm just in general having a hard time choosing which will be the most fun to play. The only thing I know is i dont really want to use a weapon/be a blaster but i do want something roughly as ongoing and helpful as inspire courage (and preferably similar)

4) I'm not too worried "wiping the floor" our group tends to make some wacky characters and its not like the module is being left as is (also RoW is known to be a bit brutal as well)

Basically just the title, I've mostly ignored this class since its not very party friendly (which may be a faulty judgement on my part) unless your just going to be in your vigilante form for battle and social in town which imo kind of defeats the purpose but vigilante soul intrigued me but before I go making some crazy build I want to make sure I know how it works first.

For the sake of this question I'm going to use something absurd an SS Vigilante/Paladin/Anti-pally and before you ignore this post i swear it makes sense. Here's the ability thats relevant.

Splintered Identity (Ex): A splintersoul’s two identities are even more distant from one another than those of a normal vigilante. He cannot use any of his vigilante talents while in his social identity.

However, for the purpose of qualifying for classes, feats, and other abilities, he is eligible if one of his alignments meets the requirements.

So if I'm reading this correctly it breaks the usual alignment restrictions so as mister bill murray would say “Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!”

So yeah HOW exactly does that work in practice. Let's say your a 20th Lvl Pally/Anti-Pally/SS Vigilante.

Is it?

A) Social = Paladin 10/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Anti Pally 8/SS Vigilante 2


B) Social = Paladin 10/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Paladin 10/Anti-Pally 8/SS Vigilante 2


C) Social = Paladin 18/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Anti-Pally 18/SS Vigilante 2


D) Social = Paladin 10/SS Vigilante 2, Masked = Fallen aka Vindictive Bastard Paladin 10/Anti-Pally 8/SS Vigilante 2


E) Something else

I honestly don't think it's C as interesting as that could, I'm mainly reading it as B or possibly D) but what do you guys think?

Note: I'm also asking essentially the same question for a Bard/Paladin, a Barbarian/Monk, an Anti-Pally/Monk, etc., etc. Anti-Pally/Pally just seemed the most extreme example.

So pretty much the title although since the leadership feat is banned in our group i'm only getting a few abilities from cult master (Insidious Personality, Fanatical Stare and probably False Healing, DM/Group ruling Pending) but it's mostly irrelevant to my question about Autohypnotists Wide Stare combining w/ Cult Master's Fanatical Stare to create a somewhat janky Inspire courage type ability.

Wide Stare (Su): At 5th level, whenever an autohypnotist is focusing his stare on a foe, he can broaden his hypnotic stare as a standard action. When he does so, all creatures within 10 feet of his opponent take penalties from the mesmerist’s hypnotic stare and bold stare class features as if he were maintaining his hypnotic stare against each of those creatures, except such creatures treat his hypnotic stare penalty as if it were 2 lower. When the autohypnotist uses this ability, he cannot exclude allies or any other creatures from this effect. If the autohypnotist’s hypnotic stare ends for the focused opponent, this effect ends.

Fanatical Stare (Su): At 1st level, a cult master can turn his gaze on a creature to fill it with fervent belief in the cult master. The target of the gaze gains a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls and weapon damage rolls. This bonus increases by 1 for every 6 mesmerist levels the cult master possesses, to a maximum of +4 at 18th level. Instead of taking the hypnotic stare’s penalty on Will saves, the target gains a bonus of an equal amount on Will saves. The bonuses don’t apply to attacks against the cult master or on saves against the cult master’s spells or abilities. The cult master can also suppress any penalties inflicted by his stare for the target. This ability replaces painful stare.

By janky I mean some of the wording isnt perfect for this to work but simply put wide stare causes your stare to affect multiple FOES but fanatical stare makes your stare instead affect an ally so stick that together an you get a stare that affects an ALLY than using wide stare it affects ALLYS w/n 10ft unless I'm just completely off my rocker. My group is probably a bit more flexible than most so considering that what do you guys think?

Note: For context I love bards but I've enjoyed playing them too many times so I'm trying to make an unconventional bard-type character preferably leaning closer to the caster side than the martial side. My other thoughts are an Ocean's Echo Oracle (the class is really flexible sadly OC doesn't mix with an other archetypes unless im misreading), Sensei Monk/U-Monk (likely Nornkith or Scaled Fist, maybe Drunken Master or Invested Regent), Evangelist Cleric (again flexible like oracle), Storyteller medium, Paladin (MANY archetypes),Vellemancer+Watcher Witch or maybe Skald is different enough? (Court Poet, Urban Skald, Twilight Speaker, War Painter, Bacchanal, Bold Schemer and/or Red Tongue), Battle Herald is also an option but im not a big fan of teamwork feats.

Oh and here's the very tentative party in case it matters (were doing Mythic Reign of Winter)

1 Gathlain Fire Kineticist (yes a Pyro Tree, its hilarious!! :P)
2 Heavy Armor (w/o prof, he's trying to get his ACP as high as possible cause reasons) Oracle or maybe a cleric
3 Healing Kineticist? Witch? Oradin?
4 Dwarven Goliath Druid
5 ??? (usually plays a melee)
6 Me = Some sort of support caster preferably spontaneous (race wise likely a fey, elf, something like that)

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ummm...is there any way to buy this my google-fu is failing me and it says unavailable here i can only find "ultimate relationships" I've just started book 5 of Hell's Vengeance and the group would like to do Jade REgent but are afraid of the terri-bad caravan system and this seems like a really cool idea and possibly a replacemet (i still dont fully understand)

Party is just finishing up the ritual from the last book so will be in the citadel soon i was just wondering if anyone managed to do anything interesting with the Exscinder, aside from being a jerk to my one player who happens to have a spellbook or just messing w/ their memories for no paticular reason he seems pretty meh, most of his abilities are not useful in combat and his fire sword is basically useless against my team (one is immune and the rest are all resistant in some way or another), actually i'm get really annoyed with this APs obsession with fire damage

For the record this my party (Lvl 12)

1. CE Half-Orc Alchemist (Explosive missile plus paint arrows)
2. LE Tiefling Living Grimoire Inquisitor (beats people w/ his bible)
3. NE Dhampir Primitive Barbarian/Evangelist (grapples people than eats them)
4. ?E Ratfolk Gravewalker Witch (replacement for the last necromancer who left :P)
5. LE Merfolk Chirugeon Kineticist (Positive/Negative Blasts, somebody needs to heal and she rarely has to deal with any resistances, MASSIVE Con)

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OK so first off thanks for all the help so far I've got alot to check out here's what im looking at for reference so far including stuff from reddit and giants in the playground (none of this will be "the setting" just stuff to pull ideas from)...btw any suggestions for other forums to ask for assistance at?

- Various thoughts on how to break a utopia that aren't linked to any specific setting (ie. metricsystems post)

- Star Trek, lots of of star trek :D

- The Historical Blog mentioned by AVR

- Suggestion of having the <undecided powerful being and/or artifact> be damaged or lost resulting in outside interference coming through a weakened barrier and/or have things inside the Utopia(s) start to malfuction (ie. if utopia was achieved through robots or mass produced magic items getting alot of Ebberon vibes here)

- The Tippyverse (basically a setting based on hey teleportation magic is a thing why doesn't anyone really use it and how that would affect a world, teleportation would likely be absent or extremely limited in the setting im planning since it would make no sense that things would still be isolated, boats too but its still a helpful look into how magic can f$$* things up economically and socially)

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-t he-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy

- Building a Magitechocratic society (based off of tippy verse but mostly limited to 3rd level spells or lower since the creator sees it much more likely to be able to gather alot of lower level spellcasters and their seems to be intention for this to be used for E6

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?242955-Building-a-Magitechnocrat ic-Society-Tippyverse-in-under-six-levels

- Spell Jammer (i know very little about this setting but it apparently involves alot of planar stuff and would be useful for isolating the "islands" but allowing for controlled travel between them for the PCs since their champions of the <undetermind powerful being and/or artifact>

- The persons campaign setting for spelljammer

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?116955-Castaways-upon-a-Planar-s ea%28world-in-progress-D-amp-D-3-5%29

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At the very least im going to watch the episode can i get the season/episode #?

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Hmmm....I'm liking where your going, might be fun to have the various Utopias be based off of the characters since its a homebrew campaign and the villain(s) could be the catalyst(s) of collapse (ie. a druidic order arigin in a "Meatatarian" utopia). The actual characters wouldn't be like gods of each land but citizens of each land that they would see as utopias, if i still want to include dieties running or at least supporting each utopia i could maybe utilize mythic rules (or a similar system) to represent them being chosen as champions of those dieties. Thinking most of the dieties power is locked into keeping the utopias in check but they can grant a small amount to assist their champion in whiping out interlopers or w/e

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So I've been running this idea through my head for quite a long time a world or universe (the former being more Pathfinder the latter more Starfinder) that is a perfect utopia with each nation or planet being the best version of various types of governments/societies Democracy, Socialist Communism, Theocratic, etc. (one i thought could be fun is a dwarven nation during something similar to the industrial revolution except w/o people dying in coal mines) but something causes the perfect balance to break or is about to break and the actual campaign is with the initial hook of fixing/keeping the balance from breaking. One idea i have it relied on powerful individuals or groups (either like high levels spellcasters or even deity level powers) to keep it from imploding and their dying or there's assassination plots something like that.

TBH Starfinder is my preference but my players aren't big fans of doing sci-fi campaigns (ive been trying to get them to let me DM or play iron gods, starfinder and/or star wars forever) so it would be a hard sell, so the planets might have to be isolated islands, which is another idea i had for how the utopias might collapse, the reverse of pangea, the islands have been slowly moving together and the ideologies literally smashing into one another would be catastrophic, still doesn't mean a diety wasn't involved, steering people away from inventing sea or space travel for example but maybe the deity(s) finally died or is dying after billions of years or something...maybe pulls one champion from each society to solve it i dunno,maybe each society has its own deity w/ it own champion, maybe one of said deities went rogue and wants to take all the islands/planets from the others i dunno there's alot of competing ideas in my head)

I'd very grateful for any suggestions on how to create several different utopias and how to destroy them i could also use some help with government styles but to be clear this is NOT a debate about real life politics just what would the best version of each government/society would look like (ie. Socialist Commune = non-sentient robots do all the "grunt work" allowing the sentient creatures to do whatever they want whether its art, invention, get high and watch netflix, etc.)

So uh yeah that's pretty much it. Hopefully I don't sound too nuts/ambitious :P

avr wrote:

What does that mean?...oh is that short for my name? Don't worry im just a little slow :P

avr wrote:
Terrakineticist replaces that with a universal infusion or wild talent

Which I took Advanced Kinesis & Ride the Blast which are universal talents which apply to all the elements instead of getting to choose six DIFFERENT talents, same w/ how i took extended range @ Lvl 3.

avr wrote:

You can't retrain a low level wild talent to a high level wild talent, the same as a sorcerer can't retrain a low level spell to a high level spell.

Oh that sucks :( Just so I can be sure I'm not misunderstanding where does it say that in retraining rules or in kineticist?

avr wrote:

Also greater waterdancer has the original waterdancer as a prereq - easy to miss I know, just as I missed that water manipulator requires kinetic cover.

Well b4 learning that I cant retrain wild talents to a higher level one I actually took Waterdancer @ Lvl 6 than retrained Aquatic Adaptation to Greater Water Dancer @ Lvl10 (Both allow underwater breathing but the former just grants a bonus to swim whereas the latter makes fighting underwater easier and since im using primarily physical blasts i figured it was an upgrade but since i cant retrain ill likely just stick w/ regular water dancer + aquatic adaptation)

avr wrote:

Elly means Elemental I think, OK.

Yep :D

avr wrote:

In general getting the highest level infusions you can is often a waste. The burn requirements can be too high, especially if you're combining a form and a substance infusion and/or using composite blasts and/or metakinesis. It's pretty easy to knock yourself down to almost no HP as a mid-level kineticist and I think the same for a high level one.

Thanks I'll double check burn costs, I've never played a high Lvl kineticist so I haven't be able to test that out for myself.

avr wrote:

Woodland step/greater is very likely a waste of time IMO. Flight is a thing (or you have ride the blast later), undergrowth which restricts movement and which you can't move around isn't that common IME, and spending a standard action to attempt to ignore entangle or similar is almost never a good idea.

TBH if i was just playing a wood kineticist instead of the terrakineticist i would take WAY different infusion/utilities but since I'll only ever use wood in forest,etc. and wood doesn't have access to flight I figured it would be useful.

That said why would it take a standard action i thought woodland step was a passive ability since it just replicates druids woodline stride, the standard action it mentions is only for the second part

avr wrote:

In fire getting stuff which you can use on fire-immune/resistant enemies is especially important for a terrakineticist. You're likely to get the fire element in places with lots of those. Draining infusion, smoke, whatever.

I was originally gonna get draining but because its a universal talent i would have to take it for all 6 elements which would be a bit of a waste, especially since most of the time when fire comes up ill likely have access to air and/or water as well cause im pretty sure theres no desert in the shackles so if im dealing w/ fire immune dudes i can just gather power to switch over (it's how GM determined we would handle multiple favored terrains) fire resistance is less of an issue as searing flame will just rip through that.

As for stuff like smoke cloud, etc. i honestly just really suck at not screwing over my allies w/ those so i rarely ever use them.

avr wrote:

Note that you don't get infusions at the same time as you get access to new levels. At L5 you can only get 2nd level infusions for example. Also shift earth takes a 4th level wild talent which you can get at 8th.

Oh dang i thought i had doubled all of them (iow a lvl 2 infusion/utility requires Lvl 4, a lvl 3 would be 6 and so on) ill have to go back through to double check, its so annoying they should have just said the lvl requirement.

Whenever a terrakineticist gains a wild talent she chooses one wild talent of the appropriate level from each of the six elements (aether, air, fire, earth, water, and wood).

Terrakineticist also grants a bonus talent at 7 and 15 and i took ex talent at Lvl 9

If your refering to the talents i don't have assigned to a specific level thos are just ones im interested in but dont have space for or havent chosen where to put them yet


These are talents that seem interesting ->Utility talents: Accelerated Swim(1-KP3), Kinetic Cover(1 - Pre-req for Water Manip), Water Manipulator(6), Greater Water Sense(10), Suffocate(12)

These are talents ive picked -> 2 - Ice Walker, 4 - Aquatic Adaptation(KP2)-> Greater Water Dancer@10<-[THIS INDICATES RETRAINING] , 6 - Water Dancer, B7 - Advanced Kinesis, 8 - Greater Advanced Kinesis (KP4), EX9 - Water Sense, 10 - Shimmering Mirage, 12 - Ice Path, 14 - Cold Eater(KP2), B15 - Ride the Blast, 16 - Elly Exile, 18 - Tsunami, 20 - ???

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Today is a good day to... halp wrote:

Mebbe Genshau's the one ye seek?

PS. didn't know the name off the top of my head [plus a prior hard-drive crash that took out most of my already downloaded pdfs didn't help], so thanks, avr, for the AON deity link. ;)

Yes it's totally Ghenshau Thanks :D (it was a good day to halp :p)

Ghenshau once strove to understand every aspect of creation and to create perfect order and goodness. As the empyreal lord added more and more elements to his world equation, however, he realized that his efforts were futile. Ghenshau abandoned his work and instead learned to appreciate the elements of peace and tranquility that come with acceptance.

At first glance, Ghenshau could be mistaken for a Tian peasant boy, often wearing a hat of woven rushes and simple linen clothes. The hat shelters his beautiful face and his level, serene gaze. His clothes bear elegantly embroidered trim depicting fantastic birds, foo creatures, and runes. He carries a pipe in his hand and a workman’s axe tucked into his rope belt.

The pastoral fields and beaten trails of Heaven are home to Ghenshau, but he can be found sleeping on the banks of rivers or daydreaming in a wooded thicket as often as he is met on the road, where he’s always ready to stop and share tales with a stranger over a drink and a smoke.

Not exactly how I remember it but pretty close (mainly misremembered what he gave up on)

Ok spent alot of the day working on this...very much still open to suggestions and advice though, thanks for all your help already. :D


(Note: KP = Kineticist of Popyra, LK = Legendary Kineticist)

(Note2: The Utilities/infusion that aren't assigned to a lvl are just ones i find interesting that i haven't found a spot for)

Race: Monkey Goblin (STR 7 / DEX 20 / CON 18 / INT 14 / WIS 5 / CHA 5 - Stat Ups: Con)

Archetypes: Terrakineticist (GM requires Gather Power to switch my element in locations w/ more than one available) & War Kineticist (LK1)

Traits: Besmara's Blessing & Reactionary

Skills [4(Class)+2(Int)+2(Mutation) = 8]: Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Know (Nature), Perception, Prof(Sailor), Stealth, Swim


1 PBS or WF: Blast (we might be using elephant in the room, which replaces PBS w/ WF as precise shot's pre-req)

1 Precise Shot

3 Precision Blast(KP1)

5 Improved Initiative

7 Extra Battleburn(LK1)

9 Extra Infusion/Utility(LK2) - Aether: Self Telekinesis, Air: Oppressive Atmosphere(KP3), Earth: Earth Rider(KP1), Fire: Flame Jet, Water: Water Sense, Wood: Greensight

11 Signature Infusion: ??? (KP1) [Note: GM says choose one for each element unless its Uni]

13 IC: Kinetic Blast

15 Imp. Precise Shot

17 ???

19 ???

Aether (Urban, etc.)

Infusions: ???

1 - Pushing -> Foe Throw@6, 3 - Extended Range, 5 - Bowling -> Friend Throw@6, 7 - ???, 9 - ???, 11 - ???, 13 - Disintegrating, 15 - ???, 17 - Nullifying, 19 - Many Throw

Utility Talents: Telekinetic Invisibility(6), Touchsight(6), Spying Touchsight(8), Reactive Touchsight(10), Force Barrier(10), Telekinetic Globe(16), Telekinetic Deflection(16)

2 - Telekinetic Finesse, 4 - Telekinetic Haul, 6 - ??? -> Telekinetic Manuevers@8, B7 - Advanced Kinesis, 8 - Greater Advanced Kinesis (KP4), EX9 - Self Telekinesis, 10 - Greater Self Telekinesis, 12 - Suffocate, 14 - Spell Deflection, B15 - Ride the Blast, 16 - Elly Exile , 18 - Aether Architect, 20 - ???

Air (Plains/Hills/Mtns, etc.)

Infusions: ???

1 - Pushing, 3 - Extended Range, 5 - Penetrating, 7 - Synaptic, 9 - ???, 11 - Chain, 13 - ???, 15 - Cloud, 17 - Nullifying, 19 - ???

Utility talents: Accelerated Flight(1-KP3), Windsight(6), Oppressive Atmosphere(6)

2 - Air's Reach, 4 - Air Cushion, 6 - Wings of Air, B7 - Advanced Kinesis, 8 - Greater Advanced Kinesis (KP4), EX9: Oppressive Atmosphere(KP3), 10 - Aerial Evasion, 12 - Suffocate, 14 - Electricity Eater(KP2), B15-Ride the Blast, 16 -Elly Exile, 18 - Weather Master, 20 - ???

Earth (Underground, Dungeons, Metal, etc.)

Infusions: Bowling(1)

1 - Pushing, 3 - Extended Range, 5 - Impale, 7 - Rare Metal, 9- ???, 11 - Tremor, 13 - Deadly Earth, 15 - Fragmentation, 17 - Nullifying, 19 - Imprisoning(KP1)

Utility talents: Earthwalk(1), Earth Rider(6-KP1)

2 - Accelerated Climb(KP3), 4 - Shift Earth, 6 - Tremorsense, B7 - Advanced Kinesis, 8 - Greater Advanced Kinesis (KP4), EX9 - Earth Rider(KP1), 10 - Greater Earth Rider(KP1), 12 - Metal Manipulator(KP1), 14 - Acid Eater(KP2), B15 - Ride the Blast, 16 - Elly Exile, 18 - Seismic Master, 20 - Greater Shift Earth

Fire (Desert, Beaches, Volcanoes, etc.)

Infusions: Eruption(6)

1 - Burning, 3 - Extended Range, 5 - Fan of Flames, 7 - Imp. Burning, 9 - Detonation, 11 - Torrent, 13 - ???, 15 - Explosion, 17 - Nullifying, 19 - ???

Utility talents: Firey Acceleration(1-KP3), Fire Sight(6), Flame Jet(6)

2 - Fire Sculptor, 4 - Searing Flame, 6 - Flame Step, B7 - Advanced Kinesis, 8 - Greater Advanced Kinesis (KP4), EX9 - Flame Jet, 10 - Greater Flame Jet 12 - Fire Corridor, 14 - Fire Eater, B15 - Ride the Blast, 16 - Elly Exile, 18 - From the Ashes, 20 - ??

Water (Cold, Swamp, Ocean, Lake, Oasis, etc.)

Infusions: ???

1 - Pushing, 3 - Extended Range, 5 - Penetrating, 7 - Impale, 9 - Spray, 11 - Chilling, 13 - Destabilizing(KP1), 15 - Cloud or Fragmentation, 17 - Nullifying, 19 - Maelstrom or Imprisoning(KP1)

Utility talents: Accelerated Swim(1-KP3), Kinetic Cover(1 - Pre-req for Water Manip), Water Manipulator(6), Greater Water Sense(10), Suffocate(12)

2 - Ice Walker, 4 - Aquatic Adaptation(KP2)-> Greater Water Dancer@10 , 6 - Water Dancer, B7 - Advanced Kinesis, 8 - Greater Advanced Kinesis (KP4), EX9 - Water Sense, 10 - Shimmering Mirage, 12 - Ice Path, 14 - Cold Eater(KP2), B15 - Ride the Blast, 16 - Elly Exile, 18 - Tsunami, 20 - ???

Wood (Jungle, Forest, etc.)

Infusions: Greater Toxin(14), Arboreal Infestation(14-KP1)

1 - Pushing, 3 - Extended Range, 5 - ???, 7 - Impale, 9 - Toxin, 11 - Spore, 13 - Deadly "Foliage", 15 - Greater Toxin or Arboreal Infestation, 17 - Nullifying, 19 - ???

Utility talents: Plant Disguise(8), Shape Wood(8)

2 - Accelerated Climb(KP3), 4 - Woodland Step, 6 - Warp Wood, B7 - Advanced Kinesis, 8 - Greater Advanced Kinesis (KP4), EX9 - Greensight, 10 - Greater Woodland Step, 12 - Green Tongue, 14 - Treestep, B15-Ride the Blast, 16 - Elly Exile, 18 - ???, 20 - ???


Infusions: Grappling(10), Wall(10),

Utility talents: Skilled Kineticist(1), Elemental Grip (4)

KP & LK Ability Quick explanations (removed any numbers,etc.)

Intelligent Mutation (KP3)- Gain an extra 2 skills pts. per kineticist level but you can only gather power as a move action.


Extra Infusions/Utilities - Removes the Lvl requirement & the -2 Lvl clause.

Extra Battle Burn - gain extra battle burn

Precision Blast - exclude squares from aoe blast damage

Signature infusion(11) - reduce burn by 1 of an infusion you know (GM says I can choose 1 per element)

Mutable Composition - Blasts that deal damage as 1/2 & 1/2 can deal any percentage of each damage type as long as at least 1 damage is dedicated to each type.


Arboreal Infestation - Ongoing Con damage+becomes tree upon death

Destabilizing - Reduce damage reduction, resistance or hardness on hit

Imprisoning - see ice tomb witch hex

Nullifying - Reduce target resistance or cause immunity to become high resistance.

Imp. Burning - Burning Infusion now deal 2d6 dmg a round.


Earth Rider - Levitate as a standard

Greater Earth Rider - Levitate as a Move

Friend Throw - Telekineticly throw your friend and they can make an attack action

Metal Manipulator - Treat metal as if it was earth for the purposes of utilities (ie. Earth Rider or Sculptor)

Aquatic Adaptation - Can breate underwater and gain a bonus to swim checks

Elly Eater - when hit by X (depends on your element) gain THP equal to half damage dealt (assumes a failed save), you can spend chuncks of this THP to reduce burn costs

Elly Acceleration - Fire = Increase Land Speed, Air = Increase Fly Speed, Water = Increase Swim Speed, Earth & Wood = Climb

Elemental Limb(KP3) - im mostly making note of this in case the DM choses to make use of the scars,etc. rules and i need to replace something.

Flame Step - immune to fire from natural sources and 1/turn can short range teleport from fire source to fire source as a free action.

Hydro Cutter - adds piercing as an optional damage type to physical water blasts (can be taken instead of basic hydrokinesis)

Advanced Kinesis - Can use burn to cast domain spells appropriate to the element and your level. (Uses Con for DC,etc.)

Greater Advanced Kinesis - Gain the granted powers of above mentioned domains (Uses Con for DC,etc.)

Skill Hack - Gain skill unlocks for the class skills granted by your element

Oppresive Atmosphere - Great;y slows down enemies who get anywhere near you as well as reducing reflex saves.

Thanks that really helps get the creative juices flowing (and im totally stealing the formatting for my notes :P), curious why you took Weapon Finesse+Kinetic Whip do you think ill get stuck in melee alot?

Note: We get an extra feat @ Lvl 1 in exchange for a Major drawback so I might even take kinetic Invocation @ Lvl 3 unless something in KoP perks my interest feat wise

OOOooooo...Kinetic Invocation is a cool feat especially for a Terrakineticist...and especially if my DM oks me using the War Kineticist Archetypoe from Legendary Kineticist 1 or the Legendary Kineticist Variant Class from Legendary Kineticist 2. (Either one should be compatible w/ Terrakineticist if i'm not to sleepy to notice something obvious)

As for edge cases I'm w8ing on a response from the DM on that, off the cuff the DMs thoughts were "If you have access to the "material aka terrain" you can choose which to align with unless there's clear supremacy of a particular element, ie. i cant use water because i found a puddle in a volcano, that is just her first thoughts though so i cant count on it until she comes back with her official ruling.

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