Can anyone think of any ways to add charisma to attack and damage rolls in addition to strength when making a Full-Attack?
Specifically looking for:
•Feats
•Spells
•Items
•Obedience Boons
•Class features that can be gained through Variant Multiclassing
For example:
Ive found Shelyn's Sentinel boon grants charisma to attack and damage when using smite evil (which can also be gained through variant multiclassing).
Tsukiyo's Sentinel Boon lets you smite evil once per day.
Bestow Grace of the Champion
Why is this so important? It's just a numeric bonus to attack and damage.
Well I want to make a very charisma heavy bloodrager that absolutely maximises his number of spells and social skills. I fully realise that doing so is a dumb, unoptimised thing to do for a martial character, so im looking for things that'll help swing it back to being a reasonable choice, while still having the strength bonuses from rage and polymorph effects be relevant. (So no replacing str entirely like Desna's dft)
Paladin VMC gets you Smite Evil at level 11 . So that'll be 3 times per day you add your CHA to attack and AC, and +7 damage that ignores DR.
EDIT: Oh I misread it, you can only smite once per day with VMC ... never mind then that's pretty useless.
Hmmm... I am not sure how much this might help you, or even if it might fit within your character concept, but I built a raging character around having high mental stats but a fairly high ability spread while raging (and only when raging). This is not a 'theory-crafted' character concept either. I am currently playing it through the Tyrant's Grasp campaign, currently level 11 (and played since level 1).
It abused the hell out of a single rage power and age penalties/bonuses. Specifically, Spring Rage and the Venerable age. Total -6 Str, -6 Dex, -6 Con, +3 Int, +3 Wis, +3 Cha.
Of course, to use it with a Bloodrager, you will have to take the Primalist archetype (or Barbarian VMC) and wait several levels before it comes online (FOREVER with VMC Barbarian). I'm not going to tell you what you should play or what you should use. Just letting you know that your idea is not dumb and I hope you succeed.
Bladed Dash grants you a one-time Charisma to attack bonus, and is available to Urban Bloodragers to use as part of their Greater Bloodrage to semi-pounce.
Well I want to make a very charisma heavy bloodrager that absolutely maximises his number of spells and social skills.
What levels are we talking about here?
|
Hmmm... I am not sure how much this might help you, or even if it might fit within your character concept, but I built a raging character around having high mental stats but a fairly high ability spread while raging (and only when raging). This is not a 'theory-crafted' character concept either. I am currently playing it through the Tyrant's Grasp campaign, currently level 11 (and played since level 1).
It abused the hell out of a single rage power and age penalties/bonuses. Specifically, Spring Rage and the Venerable age. Total -6 Str, -6 Dex, -6 Con, +3 Int, +3 Wis, +3 Cha.
Of course, to use it with a Bloodrager, you will have to take the Primalist archetype (or Barbarian VMC) and wait several levels before it comes online (FOREVER with VMC Barbarian). I'm not going to tell you what you should play or what you should use. Just letting you know that your idea is not dumb and I hope you succeed.
also if you inplant a cracked narceous gray ioun stone you can not have the con penalty from age, so you still have a decent con
Optimal equipment can help offset unoptimal stat allocation. A bane baldric and a Furious weapon go a long way.
Two handed weapon and Furious Focus.
Getting Charisma to offense unfortunately means going pretty hard into Paladin-esque stuff.
It's not direct CHA-to-damage, but a few VMC options give you static damage boosts that can help offset a lower STR:
Bard gives you bardic performance at level 7 as a bard equivalent level -4 (you can add to this with a DERVISH SIKKE)
Fighter gives you Weapon Training 1 at level 11 and Weapon Training 2 at level 19 (you can add to this with GLOVES OF DUELING)
Alchemist gives you a Mutagen at level 11 (you could do this one as a dip if 1 level is easier than 5 feats).
Paladin/Cavalier give you a 1/day Smite/Challenge (probably not worth it).
Inquisitor gives you Judgement at level 7 as an Inquisitor equivalent level -3, and gives you a Second Judgement at level 19 (you can use it more than once before this, Secind Judgement lets you have 2 Judgements active at once).
Magus gives you an Arcane Pool at level 3 as a Magus equivalent level -2. At 15th level you gain an Arcana (eg. Bane Blade). At 19th level you get another arcana.
Oracle ... I'm not familiar enough with all the options to know what to say here but there's probably something. Also since the Oracle Curse scales with your Bloodrager level this might he a good one for a dip as well.
Another option is a dip or 2.
My Bloodrager has a level of Oracle and a level of Brawler .
If I really need a boost I can use a Standard Action to cast Divine Favour (+2/+2 with Fate's Favoured) and a Move Action to Martial Flexibility into DEDICATED ADVERSARY. That's +4 to hit and damage for 1 round of buffing, which lets you put less in STR. I understand that 2 dips is a lot, but either of those is decent on its own.
Alchemist makes a pretty decent dip as well, it's +0BAB but a Mutagen and some Extracts can givve you a boost when you need it.
A level of Occultist with a Transmutation Implement gives you access to Legacy Weapon (variable-Bane weapon), a 2nd level turns it into a full BAB dip.
I'm sure there are more that others could advise you on that would do similar things.
Wonderstell: Levels 1-20(maybe), super fast xp generally, levelling up every 2-4 sessions.
The campaign may also be mythic, which means more charisma, but it also means I could get the ability to trade mythic power for extra smites. That puts the variant multiclass paladin + shelyn obedience as an ok late game option if i really cant find anything easier.
Deathless One: I was planning on Primalist actually, but I hadnt seen spring rage. That con penalty from venerable is rough though, it makes dropping out of rage even deadlier for bloodragers, especially if i have only ok con because of dividing most of my points between str and cha. Its certainly something I'll consider.
Name Violation: I dont think that ioun stone helps either unless i age after getting it.
Mr Charisma/Scavion: I stubbornly wont be dipping, but i appreciate the effort of your post. In terms of making up the difference elsewhere, i know there are plenty of ways to do that but just for this id like to focus on ways to get cha to attack and damage, especially if i do end up going mythic and boosting my charisma even further.
Did I miss any obedience boons or items that might help weaponise charisma? I know there are a whole lot of them to sift through.
I don't know exactly, but there's a guide to obediences ...
Here: ON BENDED KNEE: A GUIDE TO PATHFINDER'S OBEDIENCE FEATS.
I just did a search for "Charisma" and found 31 instances, so that's probably a start.
I think there was a guide to getting stats to do different stuff (like CHA-to-hit/etc) somewhere as well, I'll edit it in if I find it (unless someone beats me to it).
EDIT: GETTING X TO Y: A PATHFINDER GUIDE TO USING YOUR ABILITY SCORES
I'm aware of the x to y page, I used it years ago but unfortunately it hasnt been updated since midway through pathfinder's releases so it lacks the vast majority of options for actually getting "x to y" for stats.
In lieu of charisma to attack and damage, anyone have any suggestions on how to make charisma more useful to my bloodrager? For example, becoming undead makes a few things charisma based and sounds pretty solid, but its tricky to achieve. If I remember right mestama's obedience lets you become a ghost, one of the ghoulish demon lords lets you become a ghoul and some vampire demon lets you become a vampire. Off the top of my head the noble scion of war feat springs to mind for charisma to initiative... Is there anything like that, that I might want to consider to abuse absurdly high charisma? (Still no dipping though, otherwise I'd be all over divine grace, oracle goodies etc)
I mean, going back to VMC the Bard looks pretty good. You only get one Verdstile Performance, but picking the right one can make a couple of good skills much better than they otherwise would be. Not to mention traits/feats/items/etc to increase the Perform skill tend to be vastly more powerful than similar options to increase other skills (the Bard in our campaign had +34 Diplomacy and Sense Motive at level 7 thanks to this).
Intimidate plus Cornugon Smash or Dreadful Carnage make for good mid-rampage debuffs. The Hurtful feat adds a bonus attack or a Cruel weapon helps stack debuffs
In lieu of charisma to attack and damage, anyone have any suggestions on how to make charisma more useful to my bloodrager?
Is there anything Mythic for adding charisma to stuff? Not very well-versed in those rules.
I figure you'll want Steadfast Personality sooner or later to boost your will save, especially if your Charisma will reach 40+ (as you said in the other tread).
It's too bad you won't dip, though. Id Rager with a one level dip into Dreamthief Rogue could get both LoH/Mercies from Kindness and the Resentful Aura from Jealousy.
Then whenever an enemy makes an attack (or casts a spell) that doesn't include the Bloodrager they'd have to make a charisma-based save or get staggered. And thanks to the Targeted Mercy they'd have to succeed on another charisma-based save first to even attack the Bloodrager. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
also if you inplant a cracked narceous gray ioun stone you can not have the con penalty from age, so you still have a decent con
Yeah, though you'd have to have had it implanted before your age penalties are in place. And my character wouldn't have had the funds for it before starting play at level 1. Good idea, though. I already have something in mind for later that will completely wipe away the age penalties and let me retrain the rage power. VMC Wizard and the Immortality discovery.
Deathless One: I was planning on Primalist actually, but I hadnt seen spring rage. That con penalty from venerable is rough though, it makes dropping out of rage even deadlier for bloodragers, especially if i have only ok con because of dividing most of my points between str and cha. Its certainly something I'll consider.
All the penalties from venerable age is rough. I started the game with a stat spread of 10, 10, 10, 14, 16, 16, total HP 12, an armor class of 10, and an attack bonus of ... +3 (due to careful trait selection). The fact that he made it to level 2 and beyond still amazes me.
And, yes, the drastic swinging of HP inside and outside of rage is something you have to watch out for. I took everything I could to help offset the risk. Fey Foundling and Lesser Celestial Totem are great boons, as is having each other party member capable of healing (Paladin, Cleric and Aether Kineticist).
To that end, if you decide to use VMC, I'd suggest Paladin to get that Lay on Hands ability, if nothing else.