Command Spell and a chasm

[Shaun Michaels]

We have this situation -and I think it's certainly common-

The group has been ambused in a dark alley. Some roges at ground level, and some snipers at rooftop, weakening the party with their arrows for good measure.

The party cleric points to one of the snipers and casts "COMMAND: Approach" hoping for the sniper to jump down (And receive some AoO while approaching him for good measure, too)

The sniper fails his save, and... well, this is where we are split at the table:
- Should he just walk away 60 feet, to a nearbly staircase and go down, knowing that in the next round he'll be back? Our GM ruled that jumping down would be a suicidal act.
- He must jump down (And try an acrobatics check, or even endure 1d6 damage from the fall) because NOTHING in the spell descriptor says that you cannot issue a command that would result in personal harm

We have a problem with this, because it's organized play.

-----

PS: It's possible to use some other commands? Like "Laugh" for disabling a caster (You cannot cast anything with a verbal component: You're too busy laughting!) "Applaud" (Like 'Drop' but with some grandiosity) "Swim" (Since you cannot swim in the air, you're likely to act as "Fall", but while waving your arms) or "Dance" (Unless you have some ranks in perform, you look REALLY silly)

[Quixote]

There have been a few threads on this subject.

If I remember correctly, what stood out to me was the phrase "to the best of it's ability".

Getting as close to someone as you possibly can does not automatically mean taking the most direct route. If you walk towards the caster, fall down a pit and end your turn 60ft away (down) from them, that's further away than if you spent two move actions to walk away from the caster, to a bridge, across it and back towards them, ending your turn 20ft away.
Granted, under Approach it also says "as quickly and directly as possible", so you're not going to be zig-zagging or crawling or whatever, but going around the pit and across the bridge, etc. is the only route that satisfies all three criteria.

In your situation, I guess it depends on the exact distances and such. But the target needs (1) to do "nothing but move during its turn" and to move toward you (2) as quickly and directly as possible and (3) to the best of their ability.

[Diego Rossi]

Climbing down a wall is moving toward the caster too.
Falling isn't moving (in the way in which it is used in the rules) as the creature isn't doing a movement action. So playing strictly RAW if you fall toward the caster, you aren't moving toward him while climbing down the wall is moving toward the caster.

And no, you can't select different options without creating a different spell.

[Shaun Michaels]

Interesting...

And about the "Free form command", what would you say about "Similar commands, with the same result"?

To put it simply: I havw a character called "Zod", and I want to use Command (Fall) but saying "KNELL! Knell before Zod!!!"

[Quixote]

If it has the exact same mechanical result, I really can't see why a GM would try to stop you. Unless they were super rigid and/or suspicious, I guess?

[Azothath]

Shaun Michaels wrote:

... {spellcasting issues}

this is mostly advice as it's pretty general

My guess is you are new to spellcasting. It is a bit weird and twisty AND it's a game for fun with many many rules, especially in PFS. GMs have to give up some autonomy and creativeness to follow the rules closely.

Basically Command won't cause the targets to do obviously harmful things to itself. If you leave it up to the GM by saying silly stuff, then the target will do semi-random stuff wasting a round (not bad really) to the spell failing and having no effect. Some words are defined in the game with a common meaning such as 'Conditions', 'Movements', 'Actions' etc. and those are good to use. Search for them on Archive of Nethys website.

"Drop, Fall, Halt, Dance, Sleep, Dream, Hit-The-Loo{paraphrased}, Paralyze(waxy catatonic), Surrender(Disarm)" etc are all stand in place and waste a round commands. Most Perform skills and Knowledge skills fall into this group. I'm waiting for a cleric to command a target to "Preach"... lol...

"Approach, Flee, Escape, Run, Panic" are all move and waste a round commands. Approach doesn't specify a movement type and with walking being the commonest if it cannot approach you reasonably safely the spell will fail. IMO the target should have wasted a round trying to get to you on the roof unless it is on the edge and there's no stair/access towards you, then the spell would fail. The name of a Dexterity based Skill will likely fall into this category also.

So there you have it.

Honestly it's not really a great spell unless you don't want to harm your foes. Read up on a Cleric Guide.
Archive of Nethys Spell list
Items that can save you

What to Memorize:

For a Cleric at 1-2nd Level (pick from the list);
0-Guidance, Stabilize(close range!), Resistance, Det Magic(no wizard in party), Enhc Diplo.
1-Cure 1d8 (Light Wounds), Bless, Obscuring Mist(no Wizard), Divine Favor(if you melee), Tap Innr Beauty(if you Diplo), Shield of Faith, Prot from Evil, Sanctuary, Liberating Command(better at Lvl 3+).

and tell everyone to get 2 potions of healing and mark them so everyone knows what they are.

[Diego Rossi]

Shaun Michaels wrote:

And about the "Free form command", what would you say about "Similar commands, with the same result"?

Originally the spall was a single word command, without specifications of what commands were available and a note about commands like "Die" o "Suicide" making the target catatonic for one round. It was modified in 3.X edition of D&D and then in Pathfinder to simplify the adjudication of the effects and better define its power level. Returning it to the older version is against the spirit of that change.

Even allowing more commands, they will always be single word commands, not phrases, and never more powerful than those listed.

As an example, a command of "Surrender" will not be able to force the opponent to move toward you and give you his weapon, as that is the effect of Drop (increased), plus Approach.

[TxSam88]

Approach: On its turn, the subject moves toward you as quickly and "directly as possible" for 1 round. The creature may do nothing but move during its turn, and it provokes attacks of opportunity for this movement as normal.

"Directly as possible", if the "jump" is short, (less than 10') then I would say the bad guy makes the jump, if it's more than 10' (risks falling damage) then I say he takes the long way.