Monster Mercenaries

[Quixote]

My friend and I have been populating his setting with a cast of colorful characters. One was an especially intelligent and seemingly civil manticore who sold his services to the highest bidder. I thought five levels of fighter would fit the bill.
How would you build such a character?

And if anyone has any other interesting monster+class level NPC's--or just any non-standard NPC's in general--I'm always looking for stuff to spark my next idea.

[avr]

As a mercenary I probably wouldn't use the fighter class. There's other stuff you'd need as a mercenary, especially a lone one - a few social skills, some knowledges, survival - a slayer might work better and should still match on flavour. Studying as a move action should work with standard action spike-throwing.

A manticore slayer might grab a couple of defensive talents, maybe shadow duplicate and ranger combat style (wind stance). Some feats based around tracking and ranged combat probably.

[Quixote]

I'm fine with the fighter class for this guy, honestly; he doesn't need to be hitting crazy DC's on Diplomacy or Knowledge (nobility and royalty), he just needs to be competent.

I looked into feat selection and started to wonder; a manticore can throw a volley of four spikes up to 6 times a day. How much sense does it make to dedicate resources to something so limited?
Also, what feats would you pick? Rapid Shot and Manyshot would interact all kinds of weird with the spikes, and would just deplete the pool even faster. There's weapon specialization, I guess. Dazzling display, since manticores already have weapon focus? Or maybe just go Deadly Aim and call it a day and focus on becoming more formidable in melee/shoring up defenses?

[avr]

With zero ranks and low stats he's not competent in anything like that, that's the point. Even if this manticore's stats are 4 points higher or so they're still not competent.

Six volleys per day is fine for your best shot IMO. If he has to switch from his best shot after a few that's a feature not a bug especially in an NPC. Dazzling display is a good idea, I'd go with that, add scent of fear, then top it off with deadly aim. If you go with fighter then he also gets 3 more feats for melee/defences.

[Quixote]

avr wrote:

With zero ranks and low stats he's not competent in anything like that, that's the point. Even if this manticore's stats are 4 points higher or so they're still not competent.

We were thinking he'd be Int13; it's 8pts higher than the average 'core, but going from 7 to 13 feels less crazy than the advanced template (manticores that mate with dire lions supposedly produce advanced manticores). So instead of 6 skill points, he'd have 18. And then s'more from fighter.

With Cha12, our first pass at him was something like Diplomacy +9, Intimidate +15, Knowledge (history, nobility and royalty) +5, Sense Motive +8, Survival +8 (+12 when tracking). That feels...good enough to get by, no?

avr wrote:

Dazzling display is a good idea, I'd go with that, add scent of fear, then top it off with deadly aim. If you go with fighter then he also gets 3 more feats for melee/defences.

We were considering Iron Will and maybe some combat manuevers to shut down those that get too close. Scent of Fear is awesome.

On a semi-related note, I was thinking about a custom magic item or two for him. Off the cuff, how much do you think an item that increases the duration of Demoralize by d4 rounds would be worth?

[avr]

I was thinking a flying mercenary would naturally pick up k (geography) and (local) before those two, and +5 doesn't quite match my competency-feelings...but if that matches your concept for the guy, sure.

Increasing demoralize duration by 1d4 rounds (where thug rogue and/or skill unlocks are not involved) feels like a feat, and 5-10 thousand is what I price a feat at for permanent magic items. If there's an intimimancer in the party I recommend not bringing such an item into the game.

[Quixote]

Knowledge (geography) makes a lot of sense, yeah.
And what's "competent" to you, then? I mean, your average caravan guards and mercenaries are, what, lvl3-8? That feels about right. And I doubt Knowledge is a skill most of them max out. And while some may be quite smart, I don't think there would be many geniuses in the crowd. So...+9 at absolute most, assuming it's a class skill for that particular individual. And that's plenty for the DC10-20 range.

I was thinking a helmet that's naturally sized for a large-sized dome, for the item.
5-10k for a feat is interesting. What's your thought process there? I can see some feats being worth that, but things like Dodge, Improved Initiative and Iron Will obviously aren't worth that much.

[Reksew_Trebla]

It sounds like you don’t know about the following:

Once you have determined the creature’s role, it’s time to add class levels. The first step of this process is to modify the creature’s ability scores. Creatures with class levels receive +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores, assigned in a manner that enhances their class abilities. Creatures with NPC class levels do not receive adjustments to their ability scores.

[Quixote]

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

It sounds like you don’t know about the following...

Hm. I didn't know about that.

I don't think we'll use it, though.
A normal manticore is, I believe, Str20, Dex15, Con18, Int7, Wis12, Cha9. Or something like that.
This guy will be Str20, Dex16, Con18, Int13, Wis12, Cha12. Actually more bonuses in total, but it's less about making him better in combat and more about his unusual personality.

For feats, the standard monster has Flyby Attack, Hover and Weapon Focus (spikes). I feel like that's probably good right there.
Elephant in the Room-like houserules applying, I was thinking Combat Reflexes, Cut from the Air, Dazzling Display, Improved Disarm, Iron Will and Weapon Specialization (spikes)...?

[Mark Hoover 330]

Manticore mercenary: Fighter 5, Profession: Soldier +9 (from 5 ranks in the skill, Class skill bonus and Wis 12), the Leadership feat for a cohort and several peon soldiers to command. This is the classic "soldier-for-hire" mercenary.

Manticore professional bounty hunter: Fighter (Vengeful Hunter)5. This NPC is a hired gun, focused on Survival (Tracking) from the air. In combat they're all about hit-and-run tactics: Dodge and Mobility added to Fly-By Attack. If they take a hit they cause 1d4 Bleed damage on their opponent, hoping to track the foe's blood or scent and ultimately run them to ground.

Manticore Recon Expert: Fighter (Skirmisher)5. The manticore in this build takes Skill Focus: Stealth and puts 10 ranks into the skill, so their total is Stealth +18. Depending on what environment it typically operates, it also has some minor defenses against saves it's gotta make in said environments. This creature is a ranged attacker and uses speed and natural hazards to their full advantage.

Now, that's just 3 takes and only using Fighter. You could expand on them or PM Voodistmonk for better builds if you want to optimize for combat. Personally though, I feel like if you're going to put this much work and these stats into a manticore, personality should drive the build instead.

Here's a different take altogether, but using that same stat array: Manticore Savannah Hunter - Female Manticore Druid (Lion Shaman)5. Feats: Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Extra Traits: Beastkin (lions), Child of the Moon (Stealth). This manticore isn't the most efficient slayer but she uses the innate gifts of her race to bill herself as an expert tracker. She was born from the pairing of a manticore and a lioness under an auspicious moon and has learned to harness druidic power. Now she essentially controls the strongest male of the pride as her mate/animal companion.

Together they hire themselves out to the highest bidder. They take jobs such as scouting ahead along caravan routes or acting as an enforcer to local tribes, but the manticore's specialty is bounty hunting. Along with being able to network with those Humanoids that would dare speak with her, the manticore NPC can also freely converse with any lion/lioness across the vast savannah. She prefers to travel by night, soaring above while her companion races below.

When she needs to enter combat she summons a feline whenever possible, or else a handful of small elementals which resemble feline creatures. The manticore prefers to surround a single foe, usually the target of her bounty, and have her minions grapple with the foe to ensure their vulnerability. If the bounty has allies, they are given the choice; suffer their friend to a cruel fate or back off and let the manticore take what is hers.

[Quixote]

Mark Hoover 330, I was hoping you'd post on here.

I love the idea of a druid's animal companion being more than a pet. Ran into that once with a tropical island campaign; the halfling druid and her black panther and their cub. Which- of course, raised some questions. Like, if you were a panther at the time, is it okay...? We said it was totally fine so as to let the player have their fun and to avoid any more weird conversations. Plus, it adds to the mysticism and strangeness of druidic magic.

Profession (soldier) is an interesting skill choice. What would that allow this fellow to do, you think?

Seeing a lot of stuff focusing on tracking. I guess that makes sense; a +4 racial bonus to Perception on top of Scent. I actually took it in the opposite direction and put less resources into that aspect, trusting it's natural talents to make up for it.

Still feels weird to have a character that only has enough ammo to make 6 round's worth of ranged attacks a day. Is there any precedent for a feat or item that could boost that sort of thing? Like Extra (Channel/Rage/Smite)?

As far as the specific character, we're thinking this guy is like an old English gentleman. Muttonchops and a waxed mustach. Enjoys good brandy and cigars. A lot of "ahm, yes, quite! Bully! Brhmbrhmbrhm. Indeed!"-sort of stuff. And you know. Eats people. Can't be a manticore without that part.

[Mark Hoover 330]

First off, I love the description of your intended manticore NPC Q to the X! Makes me think of those old Tennessee Tuxedo cartoons, an Englishman with a pith helmet and a blunderbuss, only that's not a rifle it's the manticore's own tail! Please give the NPC a monocle!

As for what Profession: Soldier does: by RAW it allows the NPC to make money with a daily wage. I think that's the only mechanic ties to it. However, looking over the fluff on the Skills section it states that skills can sometimes be used in place of others. Here's how I've allowed players to use Profession: Soldier in my games:

1. Knowledge checks specific to an army to answer a stated question such as "what are the ranks of soldiers" or "whose standard is this" and so on

2. Use this skill in place of Diplomacy when dealing with military personnel

3. Help analyze battlefield strategy or formations, understand patrol routes and such

So as you can see, while none of that is RAW these are things you or your GM could sign off on if you so chose. This has gotten a lot of use in one of my current campaigns where, after gaining the Leadership feat as a bonus at level 7 one PC in the game with ranks in this skill reorganized his "business" during Downtime into a professional mercenary college. His Cohort and other followers are all low level soldiers and they routinely hire themselves out to the campaign's home city - the city has just enough standing guard to protect itself, so this PC's group patrols a large area in the hinterlands, reporting threats and dealing with very minor (level 1-2) disruptions.

Now, you asked about other monster/PC combos. As they pop into my brain I'll toss 'em in here, poster who puts the "hot" in Quixote. I'm a personal fan of Aberrations, so there might be a lot of them here.

1. Inspector Decs Male Decapus Investigator (Relentless Inspector) 4. It all started when a Decapus surfaced in a mortal city at night and the first thing he overheard was a uniformed gentleman breaking up some kind of scuffle by proclaiming "RIGHT! WHAT'S ALL THIS THEN?"

After witnessing the apparent power and authority of the phrase, the Decapus went about studying every facet of mortal life, moving from abandoned attic to tower dungeon and such. He learned to affect the appearance of an Inspector of the city watch and use the magical phrase to evoke fear in mortal's hearts. Somewhere along the way however the aberrant creature became SO good at his new role he was mistaken as a member of the watch and told to report to the Watch Commander. The rest, as they say, is history.

This creature is approximately 5'1" but weighing 160 lbs. His stats are Str 14, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 16. He's traded out Toughness for Weapon Finesse and also taken Focused Inspiration: Disguise and Intimidate. "Inspector Decs" as he's come to be known has added ranks in Linguistics, learning several local languages as well as the aforementioned Disguise and Intimidate. Through a combination of Silent Image at will, Bluff and Disguise checks and the occasional Extract of Disguise Self the Inspector has pulled off a human appearance for years. To mortals in the city, Inspector Decs is a stocky, barrel-chested human male with a thick moustache but pallid complexion. He wears the standard navy blue uniform of the Night Watch, complete with a conical helm strapped to the top of his head. He carries a "night stick", effectively a hollowed out cane in which he keeps a sword for difficult fights.

Now the typical Inspector of the Night Watch is merely a patrol person or "Bobby" as they've come to be known. Inspector Decs' full title is Detective Inspector and he has special license to investigate crimes and other duties, which is how the Decapus gained access to alchemical labs... and the morgue.

One last note: Inspector Decs is currently Chaotic Neutral, but actually has several good tendencies. Of course the consumption of humanoid carrion is actually their primary food source and a true delicacy, but the more invested Inspector Decs became in his role, the harder it was to procure the needed potables. He has made an alliance with the only other mortal in the city that knows his true form: the current morgue director, Doctor Molly Hooper. She turns a blind eye to the creature's appetites in exchange for his continued work towards ending crime in the city.

This character is kind of a riff on the main characters in the BBC show Sherlock and the comic book/show iZombie, along with some obvious nods to classic British policing in and around London. I have no idea how well he'd actually do in a fight, especially against a bunch of PCs. Rather he could be an interesting NPC contact for the characters to know early in their career if it's an urban setting.

[Hugo Rune]

Skim reading the conversation to date, and noting Quixote's concern over the limited number of spikes; I'm minded towards a WWI fighter pilot. Their main skill was reconnaissance (air-ground weaponry was often limited to dropping a grenade as they flew overhead). I'm also thinking a bounty hunter/assassin type.

The manticore isn't a great flier, but has reasonably good senses. They can keep a lookout above a ground based group and be an early warning for any group that he is protecting.

Being a winged great cat, he would be a natural hunter. He tracks down his prey then kills it. The limited number of spike uses isn't so relevant in this case.

In both cases, Ranger (or rogue) rather than straight fighter seems more natural. Perhaps adding skill ranks into fly, perception and survival as well as the previously mentioned knowledge skills.

[Quixote]

@Mark Hoover 330: first, that character concept is awesome. Does he have a deerstalker and multiple magnifying glasses?
As for Sir Gregory Buchenfost (or whatever his name ends up being. Just something suitably pretentious), I was absolutely thinking he'll have a monocle. For reading, of course. He keeps it at home, next to his giant fez and enormous burgundy crushed velvet robe.
On the field, he's got his baroque bronze armor/barding...actually, the more I think about it, the more I think I'm drawing inspiration from the armored bears in "The Golden Compass". Just even more eccentric.

Hugo Rune wrote:

...the limited number of spikes; I'm minded towards a WWI fighter pilot. Their main skill was reconnaissance (air-ground weaponry was often limited to dropping a grenade as they flew overhead). I'm also thinking a bounty hunter/assassin type.

An interesting take. I'm not sure we're going to deviate from the class or primary function, but it's definitely fuel for other ideas.

I just wonder, if a lvl11 archer only had enough arrows for 6 attacks, would we say "ah, they're an assassin or somesuch", or would we say "...maybe get more arrows?"
I feel like a feat similar to ability focus would be okay. An extra 3 uses (12 spikes)? Or just double it? But then, I rather like his feat selection now and may just keep it as-is. Three primary attacks with Str20, weapon training and all that is still solid.

[Mark Hoover 330]

How serious/humorous do you want to get with these? Also right now I'm trying to stick to "monsters;" creatures like Aberrations, Magical Beasts and such that don't fit the usual PC's physical description. Do you want to delve into Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids as well?

I like trying to find ways to fit thematically interesting classes with monsters, even if the combat abilities aren't really all that stellar. There's other posters on these boards like Drejk, Set or Voodistmonk that would probably do a better job than me in either the creativity or optimization side of things.

Anyway, I start with a concept that deviates from the standard monster. This is why I like Aberrations. Obviously these are creatures that eat, sleep and presumably carry out other biological functions in some rational manner, so they likely reproduce to create more of themselves, but think of the name, Aberration; that means they're a divergence from some norm.

How did a Fogwarden or Bogwid come to be? Could they have originated from some alchemical accident or Fleshwarping experiment? Perhaps a demonic ritual? Your monster + PC class doesn't have to fit the norm for the base creature.

Imagine a Fogwarden. This is a creature, humanoid in shape but composed purely of an icy fog. The base creature is an Aberration that shoots lightning and animates any dead creature in a 20' radius, but once it moves outside this range the undead stop animating from the electricity the creature produces.

Now, take that same creature and give it levels of Sorcerer (Undead Bloodline). Suddenly you've got this gaseous creature that can charm the undead with its spells or deliver pure fear at it's touch. Sure, it could just be a typical Fogwarden, born of Fogwarden parents, but what if you gave it a DIFFERENT backstory?

Fogwarden Sorcerer (Undead Bloodline) 8:

Durbravka was a promising, if driven young woman studying the effects of electro-chemical processes in the reanimation of dead flesh. Her homeland, a frigid northern land of monunains and storms boased many universities for alchemists and such. Durbravka, being of humble origin caused quite a stir throughout the academic community. Her ambition, however was viewed as a threat by many of the heads of this society, not to mention the outcry by the goodly clergy who spat accusations of heresy and blasphemy upon her name.

So it was that, working late in the lab one night, Durbravka's experiment was sabotaged by agents hired by the faculty. The young woman's delicate chemical reactions, under the influence of a tempest of both snow and lightning overhead, erupted in a devastating explosion that killed the saboteurs and erased Durbravka from the annals of science in her homeland.

However, three days later the storms had settled into a near constant fog rolling in off the nearby lake across the university campus. Reports began circulating of a feminine form, gliding through the mist like a spirit or specter. the only detail in common were the creature's striking blue eyes that seemed to crackle with som malevolent electricity from within.

So it was that Durbravka became the dark apparition known as a Fogwarden. What's more, the exposure to the reanimate fluids and necrotic substances has infused her cells with an unholy, necromantic power. Durbravka can manipulate this power for a variety of "spells" or effects, primarily those that manipulate the animated dead or deliver fear to the hearts of the living.

So now she wanders, a cruel and malevolent horror, haunting the fringes of the society that sought to end Durbravka's promising career. The change appears to be a permanent one and any hope of reversal has been replaced in Durbravka's heart with cruel, icy revenge. She will stop at nothing to expose the corruption of her detractors and shows no hesitation to destroy, or even reanimate, anyone that tries to stop her.

[zza ni]

for more then 4X6 shots a day. maybe this would help:
get an amulet of mighty fists (+2) with sharding (which is a +2 ability) on it.

it was mentioned back in other threads that sharding was working with amulet of mighty fists (as it can be placed on melee or thrown weapons) and it should allow a monk to effectively 'throw out' his paunches. as the spikes are thrown projectiles (and not ammunition from a bow or cross bow) it should allow him to go through the motion of almost throwing them without shooting the original and sending out the shards instead.

he should also be able to wear an amulet with ease.

only that the shards might be limited to 10 ft range increments

[Mark Hoover 330]

If we're looking at gear for combat, I'd suggest a pair of Storm Goggles. The Hover feat allows a Large or larger sized flying creature kick up dust and debris into a cloud that conceals them. So, wearing these goggles and the Amulet mentioned above, the manticore could hover 30' from a party and fire a Shard or their full volley of spikes while enjoying total Concealment and no penalty to their own Perception.

One question about the AoMF with Sharding though; wouldn't the manticore just throw ONE spike using it? So it's only dealing 1d6 +6 that round? If that's the case they might want to invest in feats to maximize a single spike - Deadly Aim, Weapon Specialization, maybe even Vital Strike? I'm sure there's better ones out there.

[zza ni]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

If we're looking at gear for combat, I'd suggest a pair of Storm Goggles. The Hover feat allows a Large or larger sized flying creature kick up dust and debris into a cloud that conceals them. So, wearing these goggles and the Amulet mentioned above, the manticore could hover 30' from a party and fire a Shard or their full volley of spikes while enjoying total Concealment and no penalty to their own Perception.

One question about the AoMF with Sharding though; wouldn't the manticore just throw ONE spike using it? So it's only dealing 1d6 +6 that round? If that's the case they might want to invest in feats to maximize a single spike - Deadly Aim, Weapon Specialization, maybe even Vital Strike? I'm sure there's better ones out there.

the way i see it he can go wild on his first 5 volies a day as long as he keep the last one for sharding, it's an insurance in case he needs more.

and yes i think only one shard per attack would go off. still better then an empty clip.

also i second the idea of him taking a less warrior class and more sneak type. sneak attack will get him far more benefit then 6X4 with fighter feats. especially if, like you said, he can get total cover...

but! - here is the kicker :
he can also shard his bite attack and claws...in a full attack with range.

imagine : 'Melee bite (1d8+5), 2 claws (2d4+5)" all with sneak attacks! (i removed the +10 to hit, as it would be a ranged attack and use dex and not str, probably)

edit: the item you posted, only work once per round and for one attack if he wants to full attack he might want to go with a goz mask and saltspray ring (if he can wear a ring?)

[Quixote]

A lot of interesting ideas here, thank you.

Currently, his attack routine is looking like:

Bite +13 (1d8+12) and 2 claws +13 (2d4+12) or 4 spikes +13 (1d6+15)

115hp, AC26, saves +12/+10/+7

A CR5 monster with 5 PC class levels. So that's...CR9?

[Hugo Rune]

Given you appear fixed on increasing his number of spike volleys. What about a ring of regeneration? A new set will grow every 2-10 rounds after being fired.

[zza ni]

Hugo Rune wrote:

Given you appear fixed on increasing his number of spike volleys. What about a ring of regeneration? A new set will grow every 2-10 rounds after being fired.

don't believe it will work, for the same reason some1 wearing a ring doesn't need to shave, have a haircut and cut his nails all day long.

these are all dead cells (nails, thorns and hair) and the ring only work on living stuff. (like how it's been ruled to stop working once you die, unlike the original regeneration ability)

[Hugo Rune]

zza ni wrote:

Hugo Rune wrote:

Given you appear fixed on increasing his number of spike volleys. What about a ring of regeneration? A new set will grow every 2-10 rounds after being fired.

don't believe it will work, for the same reason some1 wearing a ring doesn't need to shave, have a haircut and cut his nails all day long.

these are all dead cells (nails, thorns and hair) and the ring only work on living stuff. (like how it's been ruled to stop working once you die, unlike the original regeneration ability)

That's fair enough and a good rationale. What about a custom magic item that functions like a ring of regeneration for anyone else but also allows a manticore to regrow spikes?

[zza ni]

i would probably base it off an item that allow him to use beast shape (X - of the right level to turn into a manticore) all day long as that also give him the spikes every time he changes form.
at the very least it shouldn't cost more.

[Mark Hoover 330]

For CR there's 2 ways to figure it. First is compare to the average monster stats on the Monster Creation table. A CR9 monster has approximately 115 HP, an avg AC of 23, High Attack of +17, Low Attack of +12, usually deals around 30-40 damage on a full attack round and if they have any attacks with a save attached, the DC should be about DC 18 for their best one. Finally, their saves should be about +12 on their Good saves, +8 on the poor ones.

Otherwise, there's supposed to be a way you increase the CR based on adding levels of a class specifically. A manticore is a Combat role, so adding levels in Fighter or another Combat class is supposed to add +1 to the CR. Alternatively, adding levels in a Skills class like Rogue or a Spellcaster role (think Full Caster here), every 2 levels = +1 CR, until the number of levels equals the monster's base HD.

Personally I always use method 1/comparing to Monster Creation. Your attacks as stated are all +13; this should put the manticore mercenary at CR7, but looking at their full attack avg damage and defensive stats you're at or above CR 9 ability, so I'd agree that CR9 sounds right.

I do have to wonder Q Ball, why are we so stuck on Fighter for a mercenary? Like, I get the image you're going with - a classic, if campy British sport hunter, or the golden bears from "The Golden Compass" though I'll admit I haven't read the book or watched the movie. Still, there's more than one way to skin that lion/eagle/spiked tail thing.

I won't throw out any ideas here. I've hijacked your thread enough Don Q lol! If you're interested in seeing them here or elsewhere, just let me know.

[Quixote]

I'm more than comfortable with custom magic items; if I feel the need, a tail-ring or something that increases spike regeneration would work.

Otherwise, we could just tweak the "advanced manticore" idea further and give him more daily uses.

But as it is, I think it's alright.

Some other ideas I've had since taking on this project: the otyugh rogue, an owlbear druid, a gargoyle spellcaster (anything with access to Dispel Magic, I think) and that legendary rust monster that was haunted by a bunch of ghosts from a Dragon magazine; I feel like what was a cool enough idea to riff off of.

Side note: does anyone know what dialect or accent the "old campaigner"-type English gentlemen is depicted using? That "I say, old chap. Bully! Yes, jolly good, ahrm, indeed" sort of thing.
My friend believes it's received pronunciation, but I figured I'd ask.

"Well, hrm, yes. As I was saying, my good chap, we routed the enemy--having performed a classic pincher maneuver--and they threw down their arms in, ah, surrender. And so the day was won, and also dinner, for, you see, I then proceeded to feast, ah, upon them. Hrm, yes. Quite."

[Mark Hoover 330]

I don't know what it's called... harrumph English maybe LOL? I think as long as you use the phrases you're already putting in this thread you're good.