|
We are playing AP: Kingmaker with PFS rules.
One of my PC use Dazing Metamagic Rod to cast Aqueous Orb, so every round he can move the Orb to make multiple targets to make saving throw to avoid dazed. Is it too much?
Taking Furious Spell as a reference, it can "deal the extra damage once to each target, regardless of whether the spell deals its damage all at once or in multiple hits (in the latter case, add the extra damage to the first hit against each target) ". Can I deal with Dazing spell by analogy? Is there any designer's comment about this?
Aqueous Orb is something that you summon and then move around, and then if a creature gets in the way it causes non-lethal damage.
I think we're about to get into another argument about whether you can cast Dazing Summon Monster III and Dazing Create Pit (Falling damage) or not. I think we're also about to get into an argument about whether nonlethal damage is considered actual damage too.
I'm going to say No, because nonlethal damage isn't actual damage, at least until your total nonlethal damage exceeds your maximum total HP anyway. And then I'm going to say No again, because spells that you create as ongoing effects, just like Aqueous Orb, Summon Monster, and Create Pit, aren't meant to be used with Dazing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
By RAW, the combination seems legit. Personally I'd count nonlethal damage as actual damage.
But more important: Do you want this kind of, err, options in your game? Dazing Aqueous Orb potentially takes out multiple opponents per turn. While there is a save, the usual handicap of Dazing Spell (lower DC due to increased spell level) is circumvented by using a rod. And the caster can force the same creature to save again, every round. After casting a single spell and expending a single use of an item which gets three charges per day.
I banned Dazing Spell during my last campaign, especially with high level play in mind (a second fireball per round thanks to Quicken Spell, Spell Perfection etc.). At my current one I nerf "you can't act" effects by allowing a new save at the end of each round - which had no impact so far, but it feels like a good solution. Especially since Hold Person uses it, too.
What level is the party? I'm not convinced that Dazing Spell is especially problematic at higher levels, or at least more problematic than all of the other broken things a high level party can pull out of their pockets, but I'd definitely agree that this could be an issue in a mid to low level game. That lesser dazing metamagic rod is also cheaper than I'd remembered.
AFAIK, metamagics not explicitly noted to do otherwise affect the entire spell; for example, a Maximized Aqueous Orb would do 12 nonlethal damage to any creature it hit, even the same creature hit multiple times. Definition of damage aside, your PC seems to be using dazing spell correctly.
The archetypal example for Dazing Spell, or at least the one I see most often mentioned in guides or around forums, is Ball Lightning - and it's similar to Aqueous Orb in the ongoing damage respect.
... I'm not wading into the "is nonlethal damage actually damage?" debate though.
Maybe it's time to pull out an enemy who specializes in sundering or breaking things?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
To be honest, as a GM I just ruled that Dazing spell can only happen once per spell cast (although multiple targets could potentially be affected, by something like a dazing fireball).
The power level of dazing when combined with something like a persistent flaming sphere simply isn't accounted for, even with the high spell level increase for the metamagic.
It's too easy to turn this into a "I win" button by jacking the save sky high.
You can modify a spell to daze a creature damaged by the spell
As an act of balancing it could be ruled that the effect created by the spell is not the spell per-se, and thus the damage dealt by the effect is not modified by the Dazing Spell feat. Otherwise you will have to face things like Dazing Flaming Sphere, Dazing Summon Monster, etc.
But yeah, I would have liked this feat to have a limitation like "This feat can only modify spells with an instantaneous duration." and offer a new save at the end of each round.
If someone in your party is using this trick constantly, then it is perhaps the time to have a talk with the party to see if everyone is having fun with combats finishing that way.
|
|
To be honest, as a GM I just ruled that Dazing spell can only happen once per spell cast (although multiple targets could potentially be affected, by something like a dazing fireball).
The power level of dazing when combined with something like a persistent flaming sphere simply isn't accounted for, even with the high spell level increase for the metamagic.
It's too easy to turn this into a "I win" button by jacking the save sky high.
I agree.
Is there any designer's comment about dazing spell?