As the title.
I'm expecting to acquire this spell in a few levels, since most other 10th level spells are uncommon, or just plain suck, and looking at the description:
You temporarily stop time for everything but yourself, allowing you to use several actions in what appears to others to be no time at all. Immediately after casting time stop, you can use up to 9 actions in 3 sets of up to 3 actions each. After each set of actions, 1 round passes, but only for you, effects specifically targeting or affecting you, and effects you create during the stoppage. All other creatures and objects are invulnerable to your attacks, and you can't target or affect them with anything. Once you have finished your actions, time begins to flow again for the rest of the world. If you created an effect with a duration that extends beyond the time stop's duration, such as wall of fire, it immediately affects others again, but it doesn't have any of the effects that happen only when you first cast the spell.
I'm not getting any feasible uses out of it, other than maybe to Dimension Door out to a safer location, and then attempting to Teleport back to base. A last resort that I'd rather not burn a 10th level spell slot on, since this basically means I'm leaving my party behind to die.
Stack Reverse Gravity so the enemy is pinned to a certain levitation? Seems pretty weak, even if comical to do. Also doesn't work with flying enemies. Maybe Force Cage with some Wall spells, or spells like Ice Storm, for free constant damage? Keeps them in the area while dealing constant damage to them on their turns, requiring magic to escape, which isn't always a guarantee depending on tradition. Divine and Primal spellcasters will be screwed here, though Occult and other Arcane spellcasters have a chance to escape.
Am I missing something here to combo it with, or is Time Stop really just a "get out of jail free" card spell that otherwise sucks really, really bad?
The most common use is to stack spells one over another, either buffs, spells that linger on the field, walls and sustained spells.
A death box is something possible to do with something like Cloudkill and Wall of Stone and still have a turn to choose another spell in the box or buff yourself.
Compared to the other lvl 10 spells, it doesn't seem that bad.
If caught off guard, you can use it to buff yourself.
Effects with a duration might also come in handy.Finally, unless I am missing something, how could a divine/primal spellcaster have access to time stop, since it's Arcane/Occult tradition ( It seems not related to any deity bonus spells either ).?
To quote a reddit user on a similar discussion year ago:
"Oh did we get ambushed? Well let me separate the ambushing party in half with a wall, put most of/our entire party in a protective Prismatic Sphere, and summon a Gold Dragon. I'm sorry Mr. Monk, what did you recently learn? A way to fuse the two different ways you stand into one? That's adorable."I admit it also made me laugh for the last part, but its example is excellent.
That's fair, it's just Arcane doesn't have too many actual buffs. There's Greater Invis, Flight, Haste...which are good, but feels like a waste of what is supposed to be a penultimate spell, and only Haste is the one that can affect the entire party, the rest is just one target, at a touch spell range.
Duration effects are limited, and most of those are targeted. There's the Wall spells, but that's honestly not very good damage unless heightened, and they are very easy to avoid, unless you trap them in effects like Force Cage, but RAW, they still get a saving throw, even when Time Stop happens and it targets an area that they happen to be in.
The Divine/Primal comment was with the Force Cage/Wall combo, where they can't really escape except for destroying the cage they can't see, having a Rod of Cancellation, or a very high level Dispel available, which still requires an equal level spell slot on a success, or a critical success, to work.
Wall spells are useful, but against strong enemies are very easy to counter or avoid, especially with Time Stop mechanics kicking in. Prismatic Sphere is useful if all of your party members are bunched up, but not always likely or even effective against certain enemies. Summon spells are interesting, but usually pretty weak when facing on-level or above-level threats. It might be a decent distraction, but most smart enemies will just ignore it and go for the high threat targets anyway. It seems like a good combo on paper, but in practice I'd disagree based on practicality and overall effectiveness. But yes, it's humorous by comparison.
The most common use is to stack spells one over another, either buffs, spells that linger on the field, walls and sustained spells.
A death box is something possible to do with something like Cloudkill and Wall of Stone and still have a turn to choose another spell in the box or buff yourself.
I like this strategy.
Follow up with a Force Cage, then a Wall of Stone behind said Force Cage, and then a Cloudkill that can't go through the Wall of Stone, so it just permeates the area until the spell expires.
Useful for non-Poison immune enemies, but there are plenty of those around. Ice Storm could be effective if you have 4 of them prepared, useful against enemies whom take full Physical and Cold damage.
So it sounds like there's lots you can do, but it's not an "I win" button against all types of enemies? Perfect.
So it sounds like there's lots you can do, but it's not an "I win" button against all types of enemies? Perfect.
Doesn't have to be an "I win" button, but it definitely lacks a lot of interesting synergies that PF1 permitted, since there aren't spells specifically designed for it anymore.
Any interesting synergies you can make now take just about the rest of your relevant spell slots, which is pretty rough.
Cast fiery body, fire shield, and drink as many potions of retaliation of differing energies as you can. Spend your last action(s) to move adjacent to your foe. I'm sure you could stack other effects as well.
When your foe attacks you, cast blood vendetta.
Pretty much nothing will survive the onslaught of magical energies that await them for daring to lay a hand upon you.
17.5 - 5d6 fire shield (8th)
18.0 - 4d8 major potion of retaliation (acid)
18.0 - 4d8 major potion of retaliation (cold)
18.0 - 4d8 major potion of retaliation (electricity)
18.0 - 4d8 major potion of retaliation (fire)
28.0 - 8d6 persistent bleed damage, blood vendetta (8th)
135.0
Might not sound like much at that level, but remember that it's PER ATTACK. They can either keep going and die, or ignore you while you kill them in other ways.
Cast fiery body, fire shield, and drink as many potions of retaliation of differing energies as you can. Spend your last action(s) to move adjacent to your foe. I'm sure you could stack other effects as well.
When your foe attacks you, cast blood vendetta.
Pretty much nothing will survive the onslaught of magical energies that await them for daring to lay a hand upon you.
(Sorry, coudn't help myself)
"How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?" ;)
*Evil GM laugh while looking at the monster stat block showing multiple AoOs blocking movement and dealing damage*
Cast fiery body, fire shield, and drink as many potions of retaliation of differing energies as you can. Spend your last action(s) to move adjacent to your foe. I'm sure you could stack other effects as well.
When your foe attacks you, cast blood vendetta.
Pretty much nothing will survive the onslaught of magical energies that await them for daring to lay a hand upon you.
** spoiler omitted **
That's some risky business.
For starters, you only get 3 sets of 3 actions, they don't really carry over. Furthermore, each potion and spell takes 2 actions a piece, meaning only 3 of those effects can be active at a time, 4 if you want to count the leftover actions, 5 if you Quicken the Fire Shield spell.
This can also be narrowed down with a good Recall Knowledge check, knowing which spells/effects won't work. Fire spells on a fire immune enemy? No good, there goes over half the damage.
Plus, even if Blood Vendetta is a reaction spell, it's still Persistent, which only deals that damage once per turn, not per attack, and even if it does do flat damage, it's damage-type dependent (bludgeoning does not trigger and is the most common damage type amongst monsters), and you only get one reaction for it anyway.
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Sorry, coudn't help myself.
I'd consider it MORE of a problem if this edition didn't have any counters to a given tactic.
That's some risky business.
Goading someone into attacking you always will be.
For starters, you only get 3 sets of 3 actions, they don't really carry over. Furthermore, each potion and spell takes 2 actions a piece, meaning only 3 of those effects can be active at a time, 4 if you want to count the leftover actions, 5 if you Quicken the Fire Shield spell.
I was aware of these issues already, but didn't want to overcomplicate my post. You can save actions by starting with a pair of potions already in hand prior to casting time stop and by Quickening fire shield.
This can also be narrowed down with a good Recall Knowledge check, knowing which spells/effects won't work. Fire spells on a fire immune enemy? No good, there goes over half the damage.
Fire immunity and/or multiple energy resistances was the only thing I was terribly concerned about, since they are more common at high levels and there appear to be very few counters for them. Starting with Recall Knowledge and drawing two potions sounds like it would be an excellent idea prior to casting time stop.
Plus, even if Blood Vendetta is a reaction spell, it's still Persistent, which only deals that damage once per turn, not per attack, and even if it does do flat damage, it's damage-type dependent (bludgeoning does not trigger and is the most common damage type amongst monsters), and you only get one reaction for it anyway.
I was aware of this as well. On the other hand, if they opt not to attack you more than once, the persistent damage persists. :)
Sorry, coudn't help myself.I'd consider it MORE of a problem if this edition didn't have any counters to a given tactic.
That's some risky business.Goading someone into attacking you always will be.
For starters, you only get 3 sets of 3 actions, they don't really carry over. Furthermore, each potion and spell takes 2 actions a piece, meaning only 3 of those effects can be active at a time, 4 if you want to count the leftover actions, 5 if you Quicken the Fire Shield spell.I was aware of these issues already, but didn't want to overcomplicate my post. You can save actions by starting with a pair of potions already in hand prior to casting time stop and by Quickening fire shield.
This can also be narrowed down with a good Recall Knowledge check, knowing which spells/effects won't work. Fire spells on a fire immune enemy? No good, there goes over half the damage.Fire immunity and/or multiple energy resistances was the only thing I was terribly concerned about, since they are more common at high levels and there appear to be very few counters for them. Starting with Recall Knowledge and drawing two potions sounds like it would be an excellent idea prior to casting time stop.
Plus, even if Blood Vendetta is a reaction spell, it's still Persistent, which only deals that damage once per turn, not per attack, and even if it does do flat damage, it's damage-type dependent (bludgeoning does not trigger and is the most common damage type amongst monsters), and you only get one reaction for it anyway.I was aware of this as well. On the other hand, if they opt not to attack you more than once, the persistent damage persists. :)
It's less so for a Champion or Fighter, much more so for a Wizard or other armorless spellcaster. Even with the argument of it dealing 135 damage on average, the enemy is probably critting you for more than that on average, meaning you are losing out on that trade, and still isn't worth it even if it is a 1:1 trade-off. It might be more passable with Mirror Images up, but seriously, the last time I did that I risked a PC death and barely escaped.
If you planned for the tactic, sure. You're still not getting everything on that list, and this doesn't include resistant/immune enemies, which reduces the effectiveness of this tactic greatly. This is why Magic Missiles is probably the strongest single target damage spell in the game, because it scales and is usable at nearly all levels of play. If only it worked like the Greater Elemental runes, which bypass resistances...
By the time you utilize a Recall Knowledge and draw two potions, or even well before that, the enemy is already in your grill beating you down with superior tactics. Winning Initiative in PF2 is just as important, if not more important, than winning Initiative in PF1. Plenty of encounters have taught me this importance, since it has made the difference in applying buffs, debuffs, controlling the battlefield, and so on.