Voluntarily fail saving throws


Rules Discussion

51 to 56 of 56 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

AN interesting case if the skill checks can be critically failed intentionally using battle medicine gives the ability to auto hit for 1d8 damage.

Grand Lodge

I think there is a significant difference between choosing not to resist an outside effect like saves vs spells and choosing to critically fail a your own action. I would never allow a creature to gain a benefit by intentionally critically failing on an action they are attempting. So no, you cannot get a free autohit for 1d8 damage by choosing to critically fail a Medicine check. I would rule that in that case, your intent is to do damage and therefore by critically failing, you did not succeed at your intended action.

OTOH, choosing to critically fail a save is a bit different depending on how much of the save you attribute to active resistance vs passive resistance and luck. For example, the designers have said there is a bit of luck involved with Reflex saves so even if you are unconscious on the floor, you still get to save. Which can lead to some really weird situations like a rogue evading all the damage despite being catatonic.

So, I would not make a ruling on this such that it applies all the time. Since the rules do not specifically allow, or disallow, it I would rule on a case by case.


TwilightKnight seems to have the best view on this. I agree that there a an awful lot of cases where choosing to fail doesn't make sense and other times where it clearly would make sense, generally for reflex saves. Case by case is the best approach for this issue.

To those asking how I'm trying to break the game by choosing to fail saves, I didn't have any specific spell or ability in mind, just thinking about a broken, disheartened adventurer submitting to their fate and not putting up a fight.

Though if I'm honest now someone has mentioned gravity well for quick repositioning I think that's creative and ingenious and want to try it.

Horizon Hunters

If a PC wants to sacrifice their character in a martyrdom situation, that would be something to talk to the GM about so that they can help make an epic and memorable moment the whole group will enjoy

I don't condone making your characters commit suicide, that's just not cool. If you don't want to play them, retire them and play something else.


Cordell Kintner wrote:

If a PC wants to sacrifice their character in a martyrdom situation, that would be something to talk to the GM about so that they can help make an epic and memorable moment the whole group will enjoy

I don't condone making your characters commit suicide, that's just not cool. If you don't want to play them, retire them and play something else.

I think you're missing out if you generalise like that. You've never had a character so lost in despair or guilt, giving up and choosing to throw their life away, perhaps only to be nursed back to health after, or otherwise torn back from the beyond by their party or loved ones? Then having that character follow a form of "redemption" arc, learning to accept their experiences, acknowledging their importance and attachments among the living and finding a renewed sense of purpose, now stronger in spite of the dark times they endured?

(Of course they could equally be brought back in service to some eldritch abomination, deity or other outside force, so too could they be harrowed by their experience of their afterlife and grimly determined to avoid their fate, or any number of possibilities that open up as a result of that player's choice.)

I mean, I'm not criticising the depth to which you personally enjoy roleplaying and the direction of stories you want to tell. I'm just pointing out that while it may be a sensitive subject, that doesn't mean it shouldnt be acknowledged as something thats possible in the mechanics of the game, even if you think its "just not cool". The responsibility for creating interesting and compelling stories relies on all the players after all, not just the GM, so preventing the players from making their own decisions for their character is counterproductive.

Anyway, as far as rules go, as we all agree there's nothing that specifically says you can choose to neglect resisting or avoiding effects, for now the case by case evaluation suggested by TwilightKnight is probably the best approach and hopefully the one the Devs intended.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Snorelord wrote:
I'm just pointing out that while it may be a sensitive subject, that doesn't mean it shouldnt be acknowledged as something thats possible in the mechanics of the game

Not sure I agree. It's pretty far beyond the scope of normal gameplay. 'Talk with your GM' definitely seems like a more reasonable solution than trying to navigate around RAW minutiae about it.

51 to 56 of 56 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / Voluntarily fail saving throws All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.