Hullo, is my favourite Troll being underpowered? I think it's missing "and Grab" on it's bite attack entry.
I say this because the Quick Swallow ability specifically refers to it
"Fast Swallow [Reaction] Trigger: The jotund troll Grabs a creature with their jaws; Effect The troll uses Swallow Whole."
It's Claw attack doesn't have Grab instead (to rule out it being a typo of attack type), and the Troll even has Ravenous Jaws (bite all in reach, MAP after attacks) for 2 actions, allowing the troll to really be a unique fight.
If not, and you just say "flavour" the Grab with it's jaws, that's kinda meh.
Thanks in advance!
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They are also missing the block that mentions what their recall DC is, too.
That's something Archives of Nethys adds, based on the creature types. All trolls have this issue aside from the trollhound, since they lack the humanoid trait (which other giants have).
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I don't think it would have Improved Grab. If it did, it could bite and swallow the whole party in only two actions. With a +29 in Athletics, it would be pretty easy to swallow even the most nimble of PCs. A Rogue at level 15 would have a Reflex DC of 40, so the troll would have a 45% chance to swallow them, which is pretty good, but anyone else without a legendary reflex save would just be a gonner.
Pretty clearly a typo, since without Grab the swallow whole ability doesn't work at all.
Pretty clearly a typo, since without Grab the swallow whole ability doesn't work at all.
This.
Swallow Whole can only target a grabbed creature, and only one grabbed by mouth or jaws. Even grappling with its jaws wouldn't work for the Jotund Troll (or anybody else without an exception in their stats).Since the troll has swallowing mentioned under three different entries in its stats, there needs to be errata to tell us if it should have Improved Grab or Grab on its bites.
And as noted above, it almost has to be Grab despite the monster's level because its other abilities would sync to allow it to swallow everyone in reach within 2-actions (unless one interprets grabbing the whole party as only one trigger for Fast Swallow, which would be weird given it's intentionally been given multiple Reactions for swallowing).
So it could run into the middle of the party and swallow everyone on round one. :O Seems a bit strong (and not necessarily to its own benefit if has nobody to normally attack remaining).
Of course, even with Grab, it could swallow everyone on round 2 depending on how one interprets the number of targets allowed per Grab. I'd say one, since it doesn't specify allowing more (except in terms of maintaining).
It can still swallow pretty much at will which as anybody who's faced a Purple Worm knows can be severe.
(Funnily enough, in PF1 I had several high-level PCs in my games that loved to get swallowed whole so they could hit against a usually lower AC, perhaps w/ sneak attack.)
Can it swallow everyone in reach at once? I'm unclear how Grab interacts with the activity rules, which normally don't allow you to perform other actions in the middle of them - I don't know if that changes when the additional action is attached to the attack.
Certainly, I think that it'd be 1 action per attack, without Improved Grab, not let them grab every attacked target with the same action.
Can it swallow everyone in reach at once? I'm unclear how Grab interacts with the activity rules, which normally don't allow you to perform other actions in the middle of them - I don't know if that changes when the additional action is attached to the attack.
Certainly, I think that it'd be 1 action per attack, without Improved Grab, not let them grab every attacked target with the same action.
Correct, activities can seldom happen during another action, though there are exceptions. Improved Grab is a free action w/ a trigger, so it could if the trigger's in the middle of another action.
The ability triggers after the creature's initial attack, which could mean after Ravenous Jaws (so only one grabbed and swallowed) or after each Strike (being as they're attacks), in which case there'd be a series of grabs (and perhaps swallows) during Ravenous Jaws as each attack gets resolved.With 9 potential bites, that's WAY too much action economy advantage IMO, yet I think the "after each Strike" does fit the rules. Therefore, I'd correct by only adding Grab.
(Then again, this might why it's Rare!)
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Jotund Trolls have Ravenous Jaws, where for two actions they can make a Strike with each head. Actions with Triggers can be used in the middle of activities, as long as the trigger is fulfilled.
Improved Grab is a free action that triggers on a Strike.
They also have Multiple Opportunities, which gives them an extra reaction per turn per head, but only to use Attack of Opportunity or Fast Swallow.
So it would be Ravenous Jaws, Strike, Free Action Improved Grab, Swallow Whole as a Reaction, and so on until out of Strikes.
As a reference, a Kraken only has Grab on its attacks. It does have things that let it grab TWO creatures at once, but that's a special ability. The Kraken is also a level 18 monster, so I doubt a Jotund Troll would be significantly more powerful than that.