I miss having more player-driven flashy moments


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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dmerceless wrote:
Or increase your reach by a bunch, like an Omega-Lunge, for a single attack, as you move in, slash someone and move back to place in the blink of an eye. We are in the same world where Halfling Monks can throw Giants and Rogues can walk on air without magic, after all, and I think "increase your melee reach by 30 feet for a single attack" is a perfect example of something that is absolutely fine if you can do it once per encounter but completely busted if you can do it at will, even at high level.

Considering Hand of the Apprentice accomplishes much the same thing with a range of 500 feet, you may be thinking too small. That actually sounds like a flourish feat. Maybe a higher level one, but not as high as you might think. Consider the Wild Winds stance, for example.

I know you're just throwing out examples, but that is an illustration of my worry. You may ultimately get these abilities, or a near equivalent, but because they have the press or flourish trait instead of a cooldown, because they're intended for the fighter class which generally doesn't use cooldowns, you might wind up disappointed still.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:

Considering Hand of the Apprentice accomplishes much the same thing with a range of 500 feet, you may be thinking too small. That actually sounds like a flourish feat. Maybe a higher level one, but not as high as you might think. Consider the Wild Winds stance, for example.

I know you're just throwing out examples, but that is an illustration of my worry. You may ultimately get these abilities, or a near equivalent, but because they have the press or flourish trait instead of a cooldown, because they're intended for the fighter class which generally doesn't use cooldowns, you might wind up disappointed still.

See, I shot very low with these examples on purpose. I am not a game designer, and if I shoot high, people are gonna claim I want broken things to break the game. It's exactly why I started the thread with "I'd like to see more abilities that behave like X" and not "I want an ability that does Y in Z manner". I do not have the knowledge to work on the specifics and will not claim to; it's about the general design direction and feeling.


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Flourishes are meant to emulate these "strenuous, but not draining to the point they couldn't do it again next turn" abilities such as FoB/Maneuvers and Power Attack, mostly because it doesn't make much sense that someone that specializes in advanced maneuvers doesn't have the stamina to use them whenever when they can swing their sword an unlimited amount of times, it doesn't map as neatly to a game as magic resource expenditure does.

Another issue with the approach of "Martial Focus" is that as it stands Focus abilities are way too connected to magic, and that it wouldn't make sense if the resource for "Exertion Feats" - as it were - was the same as the one used to fuel magical abilities on other classes (not counting dedications, and classes that could conceptually get both such as Ranger and Champion). The other option outside of "low calorie magic" that I can see sharing the current Focus system would be a sudden surge of superhuman strength for a single special action, but that's more on the Barbarian's wheelhouse and is already implemented in the game as a cooldown ability such as Quaking Stomp instead of a focus resource, while the surges of divine inspiration/inner strength match the Champion's/Monk's focus spells.

It seems that the system is place is roughly as follows:

"minor Exertion" (Triangle Shot, Knockdown, Whirlwind Strike) = Flourish
"major Exertion" (Quaking Stomp, Mountain Quake) = Cooldown
"Magic, but not that kind" (Wind Jump, Hunter's Luck) = Focus spell

Only a few feats such as Fighter's "Overwhelming Blow" seem to not abide to these rules and instead debuff the user to simulate the exhaustion from using the move. Could more feats of the sort appear in the future? Maybe, but as it stands it seems that it won't be tied to a resource pool but either a cooldown or some other form of limitation.

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