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I cannot understand why anyone would ever take this horrible spell in place of pretty much any other spell. It is absolute garbage. It only does what it should if you crit and then for only a single round. How is this worth a second level slot? I wouldn't waste two actions casting this if it was a free cantrip let alone a 2nd level slot.
Am I missing something or did they just drop the ball on this spell?
There are a lot of monsters with nasty reactions that this spell shuts down, even on a successful save. One casting of this spell can shut down that ability for a solo higher level monster for the whole fight. Seeing as reaction based attacks are done without any multiple attack penalty, there are many creatures that this is like removing 1 or even 2 best attacks from a round. While reactions are not universal in PF2, many of the creatures chosen to act as a solo boss have them to help balance the action economy if the encounter.
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Hideous Laughter is honestly one of the most efficient spells in the game. Fighter types, for example, lose Attack of Opportunity, which usually can end up pretty brutal. Getting a failure strips both an action and their reaction, which again, tactically is very strong.
Go up against a greater barghest while at level 4-5 and tell me it's bad, I dare you.
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A non-Incapacotation spell that Slows (as it does on a fail) is also excellent value for a level 2 slot if aimed at a high level enemy. Rating Hideous Laughter as trash is hard to understand from a perspective of actually playing 2E. Are you rating it on theory based on assumptions from 1E?
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The secret use of this spell is that it's unbelievably good. It's gotten a bit of a reputation of being a bit OP at my tables.
The trick to it is using it against solo bosses or other fights with few opponents. At that point, you're not trading actions 1 for 1 - you're trading 1/12th of the party's actions for 1/3th of the enemy actions, and their reaction. It's an exceptionally good deal for a 2nd level spell.
I cannot understand why anyone would ever take this horrible spell in place of pretty much any other spell. It is absolute garbage. It only does what it should if you crit and then for only a single round. How is this worth a second level slot? I wouldn't waste two actions casting this if it was a free cantrip let alone a 2nd level slot.
Am I missing something or did they just drop the ball on this spell?
Slowed 1 on a regular failure is most definitely not garbage. You can shut down a monster's most powerful abilities with Slowed 1.
A dragon's 2-action Draconic Frenzy or Breath Weapon? Dart in and out to neutralize Draconic Frenzy, and scatter the party to make Breath Weapon's AOE effect mostly meaningless. Spellcasters lose their 3rd action to defend themselves or command a minion as well.
The marilith demon will hate this spell, stealing her 6 reactions and her reliance on 2-action melee activities to spike her damage.
Any monster with a 3-action activity will cry because you've just stolen their most powerful ability for the entire fight, if you choose to just Sustain it every round.
And it's a 2nd-level spell! When I read it, I honestly thought someone forgot to slap the Incapacitation trait on it.
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I would argue that trading one spellcaster action a round (sustain) to just eliminate a reaction is worth it all by itself. I can't tell you how many fights turned on a monster's ability to stop PCs from retreating or using battle medicine because the AoO with reach.
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Don’t forget also that things like grab an edge is a reaction. A solo boss without reactions is in danger of getting pushed into some very dangerous situations.
I would argue that trading one spellcaster action a round (sustain) to just eliminate a reaction is worth it all by itself. I can't tell you how many fights turned on a monster's ability to stop PCs from retreating or using battle medicine because the AoO with reach.
This loss of ability is so good to inflict I'm still curious why it isn't a defined condition. Losing reactions seems like an obvious bit of rules text, especially with how it interacts with feats that give classes additional reactions per round.
I would argue that trading one spellcaster action a round (sustain) to just eliminate a reaction is worth it all by itself. I can't tell you how many fights turned on a monster's ability to stop PCs from retreating or using battle medicine because the AoO with reach.This loss of ability is so good to inflict I'm still curious why it isn't a defined condition. Losing reactions seems like an obvious bit of rules text, especially with how it interacts with feats that give classes additional reactions per round.
It technically could (see fatigued) but could also interact weirdly with things that give extra reactions if you're working numerically. I don't think there's enough needed design space for it to be a condition.
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This has been a helpful thread in helping provide uses for that spell. When going over spells, I looked past it as it didn’t seem particularly impressive at first glance. Removing all reactions on a successful save now does seem a great way to throw a wrench in my players’ tactics.
Muahaha! And they will have all of you to thank...or blame.
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This has been a helpful thread in helping provide uses for that spell. When going over spells, I looked past it as it didn’t seem particularly impressive at first glance. Removing all reactions on a successful save now does seem a great way to throw a wrench in my players’ tactics.
Muahaha! And they will have all of you to thank...or blame.
Notably, the spell is a lot less powerful in the hands of a GM since you lose the spell's best case scenario (full party vs a solo enemy). In the hands of a boss monster, the spell is quite weak. However, it can still be a useful one to remove annoying PC reactions like AoO, especially when the enemies are in a group.
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Notably, the spell is a lot less powerful in the hands of a GM since you lose the spell's best case scenario (full party vs a solo enemy). In the hands of a boss monster, the spell is quite weak. However, it can still be a useful one to remove annoying PC reactions like AoO, especially when the enemies are in a group.
For a non-PC, it is actually better to be cast by a low level mook. Maybe you get lucky and the PC rolls low, but even if they don't that NPC can now just stride twice and sustain while kneecapping your fighter or barbarian, or god forbid a Champion!