Brainstorming for ideas: minor changes and additions to Abomination Vaults


Abomination Vaults


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Here are a few changes and additions that I plan to use with the Abomination Vault adventure path. The main goals of those are:
- to let the players learn more about the history of the dungeon and its inhabitants (the authors included interesting background stories for many locales and NPCs, but the players do not always have an easy way to get to learn those tidbits);
- to add more interaction with the NPCs from Otari;
- to add more internal consistency to the dungeon/story mostly through foreshadowing.

If you have other ideas or simply comments to improve on those suggestions, please share!

Obviously, SPOILERS ABOUND!

Spoiler:
(1) Candidates for mayor position. First, Steel_Wind’s excellent suggestion from the How will you be starting the AP thread: have the AP start during a festival in Otari, where the nominees for the forthcoming mayor election are announced ; have Carman Rajani included in the list ; have NPCs comment about his last four campaigns and how there is no way he becomes Otari’s mayor (maybe add a few racist comment about his Nidalese origins).

(2) Annotated cartography mission. Once people in Otari learn that there’s more to Belcorra’s dungeon than just the surface ruins, Vandy Banderdash is very interested in collecting maps and notes about the structure of the dungeons and how each level was used. She’s ready to reward the PCs for any maps and information they can bring to her and might ask them for a complete survey of all the connections between the levels themselves (e.g., 4 connections between Level 1 and Level 2, 5 connections between Level 2 and Level 3, …, 8 connections between Level 5 and Level 6…) and the connections between the levels and the rest of the worlds (twisting tunnels, opening into the Darklands…).

(3) Information from Absalom. Once Mayor Menhemes learn of the lower levels, he reports the information to Absalom and asks his contacts over there to check if there are other tidbits of information that were not made public back when the Roseguard was sent to stop Belcorra. It turns out that there is… Those who went the Roseguard to Gauntlight knew that there were lower levels and other people allied with Belcorra but thought that it would be enough to cut off the head of the snake. They promised that the Roseguard would be paid for Belcorra’s head but did not mention anything about her allies, hoping to not spend too much money on a threat that seemed quite minor and far away from Absalom. The mayor’s contacts might discover a list of names and comments about some of Belcorra’s allies, information obtained from merchants in Absalom who sold and brought supplies for Belcorra’s dungeon. The list could include names of people who made special orders to those merchants, or contacts that the merchants introduced to Belcorra, like:
- Volluk Azrinae
- “the majordomo”
- Jarella Kaldrian
- Aller Rosk
- Nhakazarin
- Chandria Invisar
- Siora Fallowglade
- the squabbling poltergeist siblings (or, rather, their living past version)
- Chafkham
The list might include short descriptions and comments about each of those key NPC, as well as special equipment they ordered from Absalom (hinting at their role in Belcorra’s organization). It might also include a list of raw materials used mainly in summoning and binding rituals for devils and velstracs.

(4) Otari’s last days. Once Morlibind learns that Otari (the hero, not the town) did not die during the initial fight with Belcorra, he might ask the heroes to draft a report about how the thief spent his last days, retracing precisely his journey through the first levels of the dungeon, the opponents and challenges he overcame, and how he finally met his demise. PCs would have to gather information from the ghostly echoes of Otari and what they encounter in the dungeon (like the minotaur skeleton in a guardroom), since Otari the ghost’s memories about his last days are quite fuzzy. The more precise the report is, the more Morlibind is ready to reward the players (he might also give them a bonus if the story is told in an epic way, more akin to the fictions he likes to read).

(5) Siora’s quirk. Chief Assassin Siora Fallowglade was known for always cutting the left ear of her victims – a quirk that might be mentioned in the list from Idea #3. Out of habit, she did the same thing to the two guards she murdered when she attempted to flee… Perceptive PCs might notice that the two shadows they encounter in Smuggler’s Refuge are missing their left ears (it might be harder to notice on a shadowy form, but it creates a hint that those shadows might not be just a random encounter).

(6) In Search of the Perfect Soldier. In the Restricted Collection room of the Library (C33 on Level 3), the PCs might find nearly empty bookshelves specially prepared to receive reports and experimentation notes related to the quest for the perfect soldier. The bookshelves are divided into sections for fleshwarping, reanimation of the dead, selective breeding and golem creation and some of them have a few old reports written mostly in undercommon. Some of those reports might be presented as “copies” of notes collected by Jafaki and might hint to the various creations and experiments the PCs can find on Levels 5 and 6 of the dungeon. The undead librarians used to keep in contact with the seugathi researchers and continue to create copies of their research notes for safe storage in this library… that is, until Belcorra’s return created the spectral wall of ectoplasm blocking off the lower levels.

I'm still looking for ideas to "bind" the various encounters on Levels 5 and 6, and maybe foreshadow the presence of the denizen of Leng (in addition to its effects on the mayor's daughter).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I like these ideas! I'm definitely interested in more ways to get the town connected to the Vaults. I really like the idea of Morlibind and Vandy giving those missions to the PCs.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Another very rough idea: give the PCs a magic item that allows them to get hints about what happened in the rooms of the dungeon back when Belcorra was alive.

Goals:
- give the PCs more agency about collecting information about the dungeon;
- get a way to convey information about the history of the dungeon that might be difficult to impart in other ways (the AP volumes often provide rich backstories for many rooms, but it's not always that easy to give this information to the players)

The PCs might have to construct the magic item themselves, since it needs to be attuned to the time in history about which they want to gather information. It might require some mystical components from the ghostly or physical remains of people who actually lived at that time. (Maybe Borbo's gem and a part of his preserved body - an eye? Maybe a more complex list of ingredients turning into a scavenger hunt through the first levels of the dungeon?)

The details for the construction of the magic item (the crafting formula) might be found in the notes left in Volluk's Worshop - though the notes might be incomplete and reference a few volumes stored in the library of the 3rd level. Taking Volluk's research topics into consideration, the magic item might be some sort of necromancy-focusing crystal lens. (Thus requiring interaction with the merchants in town, especially Gallentine Deliveries to get a special lens crafted in Absalom).

The magic item might be activated once/day. When it is activated in one of the rooms of the dungeon, it could create a ghostly, obviously illusory, image of a randomly selected event that happened in that room. (The random selection part allows the DM to reveal as much or as little information as they want, and incites the PCs to use the magic item several times in the same room if they want more hints about its usage back in Belcorra's days). In addition to this activated power, the magic item might also give a constant bonus (maybe low-light vision? or night vision? or a +1 item bonus to Perception when used as an eyepiece?).

Since the scene revealed by the magic item is "random", I guess that introducing this object in the campaign is safe with regards to the plot of the campaign?


Dalvyn wrote:

Another very rough idea: give the PCs a magic item that allows them to get hints about what happened in the rooms of the dungeon back when Belcorra was alive.

Goals:
- give the PCs more agency about collecting information about the dungeon;
- get a way to convey information about the history of the dungeon that might be difficult to impart in other ways (the AP volumes often provide rich backstories for many rooms, but it's not always that easy to give this information to the players)

The PCs might have to construct the magic item themselves, since it needs to be attuned to the time in history about which they want to gather information. It might require some mystical components from the ghostly or physical remains of people who actually lived at that time. (Maybe Borbo's gem and a part of his preserved body - an eye? Maybe a more complex list of ingredients turning into a scavenger hunt through the first levels of the dungeon?)

The details for the construction of the magic item (the crafting formula) might be found in the notes left in Volluk's Worshop - though the notes might be incomplete and reference a few volumes stored in the library of the 3rd level. Taking Volluk's research topics into consideration, the magic item might be some sort of necromancy-focusing crystal lens. (Thus requiring interaction with the merchants in town, especially Gallentine Deliveries to get a special lens crafted in Absalom).

The magic item might be activated once/day. When it is activated in one of the rooms of the dungeon, it could create a ghostly, obviously illusory, image of a randomly selected event that happened in that room. (The random selection part allows the DM to reveal as much or as little information as they want, and incites the PCs to use the magic item several times in the same room if they want more hints about its usage back in Belcorra's days). In addition to this activated power, the magic item might also give a constant bonus (maybe low-light vision? or night vision? or a +1 item bonus to...

This makes me think of the heart from the Dishonored games, where you point it at people and it tells you a short snippet about them, in the voice of the heart. Maybe you could do something similar with Otari, and it's his voice and his experience in the space?

In case it's not familiar: The Heart

But I'm also wary about giving background to rooms, as it creates a lot of GM-driven talk that often isn't super interesting to the players and really slows play.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Monkey Bars wrote:
But I'm also wary about giving background to rooms, as it creates a lot of GM-driven talk that often isn't super interesting to the players and really slows play.

Thanks for your comment and ideas! Hopefully, the once-per-day limitation and the fact that the PCs have to choose to use it to get information about a room might help with this concern?

Yet another quest idea...

After the Roseguard's attack on Belcorra's dungeon, there was much chaos in the lower levels, especially in level 2 (the servants' level) where the explosion and the collapse made a lot of noise. I would guess that some of the servants that had joined Belcorra (for one reason or another, disturbing faith in Nhimbaloth being a possible reason I guess) began to panic and try to leave.

This quest idea is based on one such servant (as yet unnamed), who fled the dungeon then hid in the swamp for a few days before joining up with the first settlers who, along the Roseguard, created Otari. That unnamed servant panicked and hid a family heirloom in the dungeon before managing to escape.

After he joined the inhabitants of newly-founded Otari, he went back to his old evil / certainly not lawful ways and joined other similarly-minded people in a sort of budding thieves' guild. He never dared go back to the dungeon to get his treasure but, on his dying bed, he confided in a friend what he remembered of the day of the attack.

His memories were written down, then passed down from rogue to rogue... and finally ended up in Yinyasmera's hands recently when she dug up old documents from the archives of the thieves' guild. The document might actually be the reason why she sent of some of her men to investigate Gauntlight in the first place. And, considering that her men failed, if she trusts the PCs, she might give them the document in exchange for a service, or she might simply offer to sell them the document.

Here's a first draft of that document:

Spoiler:
When I heard the explosions, I was in the office of the majordomo who managed all of us servants. I ran out of the office, hoping to get to my room... but I soon noticed that a collapsed had blocked the way. I thought about fleeing through the flooded cavern: I ran through the kitchen and the pantry, but... I always had that fear of water, and I've never been a good swimmer. I turned around and went down the stairs, to what I knew was the library level, hoping to find an exit there.

I entered a long hall. To my left, I remember seeing a room flooded with a strange fog, which I avoided. I went the other way, through a door, and reached a large hall. I closed the door and leaned against it to catch my breath. It was chaos all around, with people screaming and running in all directions. I started counting the door, with the one at my back being number one, while following the wall to my right... I kept following the wall while counting one door for each of Nhimbaloth's digits. Then I went through the last door. That's where I hid the first part of the amulet, behind a loose stone in the far corner of the room.

I didn't know the library level very well, and I had seen no exit yet. I decided to go back up to the servants's level, which I knew better, then ran through the pantry and the kitchen again. I couldn't go through the flooded cavern, I couldn't go up the stairs, blocked by the collapse. I could think of only one other exit, situated in the room beyond the workshop. I grabbed a torch and, without wasting any time, went down the room through the hole.

I landed in water... but, thankfully, it wasn't too deep. There were stairs in that cavern, but they most likely led back into the complex and I wanted to get out, not in. There was also a tunnel, leading into darkness. Before going that way, I hid the second part of the amulet at the foot of the wall next to the stairs, in the corner, under a few rocks.

All I remember was that I exited the tunnel several long minutes later, somewhere on the coast. I spent maybe two or three weeks there, hiding from whoever came to attack us. Then I saw settlers, who were gathering to build a new town nearby, and I joined, hoping to hide amongst them.

Following the instructions in the letter, the PCs should be able to find the two parts of the amulet.

Spoiler:
The first part is in room C25. Starting with the door east of C10 being door #1, the unnamed servant followed the wall south to C15 before going back north, and counting the doors as follows: #2 leading to C13, #3 south of C15, #4 to C19, #5 to C18, #6 to C17, and finally #7 to #C25. That's the door corresponding to Nhimbaloth's last digit ("Clusters of seven perfectly spaced divots of crumbling earth on shores are said to be Nhimbaloth's fingerprints.")

The unnamed servant then went back up to B16, B14 then B8. He went through the workshop B22 and into the well room B23, then down the well into room C40, where he hid the second part of the amulet before leaving the dungeon through C2.

I'm still looking for ideas as to what the "amulet" might be (it could also be something else than an amulet).

Liberty's Edge

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I have used another entry path to AV which bypasses Wrin and anything to do with the Roseguard.

I ran Menace Under Otari first, intending that the Stonescale Kobolds fled the 1st and 2nd level of the ruins when the Morlocks and Ghouls attacked. The Kobolds did not expect anything to come up from below and so that way was not trapped. They were taken unawares.

The Kobolds are unclear as to the nature of the foes that attacked them. Some could have been dead, but most were alive.

Boss Zolgran is female and lacks the "tessul" - a gold and copper ceremonial head band similar to a tiara used by the Stonescale Chief to designate rank. The haunt in A7 is mentioned as a latter day event not related to Belcorra's defeat. This haunt is new and represents the remains of the Stonescale recently slain in the attack by the Morlocks and Ghouls.

The tessul was taken as spoils during the invasion and was modified by one of the Morlock Engineers who now uses it as a headband on which to mount various magnifying glasses. It is worn by one of the engineers in the workshop located at B.22. Restoring this object to Zolgran will greatly increase her influence with the Stonescales and allows her to assert a true claim as Chieftain -- making the PCs task easier. They will be able to use the Kobolds to reoccupy the upper 2 levels of the Gauntlight Fortress - providing allies and a more secure base from which to launch their expeditions downward.

I otherwise removed the green dragon hatchling in Menace Under Otari and replaced it with a hatchling born from an egg stolen by Zolgran from the River Drake. Zolgran used it as a focus to rally the remaining members of the Stonescale and used fragments of the egg to create necklaces for the refugee survivors from Gauntlight.

In addition to the plight of the Kobolds and their concern that the "pale things from the dark" that drove them out of their home will come for Otari as well, I used the plot hook provided by the collapse of the Thirsty Alpaca as a key motive.

The owner of the Thirsty Alpaca is mentioned to be missing since the collapse two weeks ago, but no more is said about it in either the Gazeteer to AV1 or in the Beginner Box. The implication is that the kobolds caused the collapse and took him - but that's all that is said.

Instead, as I want the Stonescale kobolds to be more sympathetic, I explained through Zolgran how the collapse was an "very accidental" caused by a dropped wine barrel that fell, rolled on the ground and the impact of the barrel on a support beam brought the tavern down. The owner, Aaram Minkel was among those who was buried in the collapse and ensuing fire. Amist the chaos and smoke the kobolds tried to help and attempted to rescue him. As Aaram was pulled out in the darkness and smoke and he saw the kobolds, he ran terrified for his life through the tunnels beneath Otari. Knowing that the traps in the tunnels posed a threat to Aaram, some of the kobolds pursued him but Aaram got away and ultimately took the tunnel to Fogfen as he fled. Fearing he would kill himself on their own traps, the kobols let Aaram go and hoped he would come back.

Aaram didn't come back. He emerged in the fogfen, was attracted by a light and ended up guests of Volluk and the morlocks.

The PCs are there looking for Aaram -- and to scout out what threat whoever displaced the kobolds are to the citizens of Otari. Aaram is with the three thieves in B.24. They have all been consigned as "fallback victims" by Volluk should Lasda die under the strain of his torture.

You can see more about all of this as it played out in our twitch stream of the session here.

As for Wrin, I intend to use her as a conduit of concern and lore over the Gauntlight, but only later as the story unfolds organically. Wrin is not somebody the PCs have any dealings with initially, but she has one special role within Otari which will bring the PCs to her: Wrin is the only person in town who will be interested ion buying the very expensive telescope from Volluk's workshop at A23. (There is no way my players will let Tangltop keep that telescope -- it is plainly extremely valuable. Won't happen. If it does - Moriblint will be unable to answer some jey question and will recommend the PCs consult with her instead.)

Wrin will question the PCs carefully on the telescope, where they got it, remark on its construction, mention how part of the controls and how they turn counterclockwise -- together with the purple and silver clasp -- all clearly points to Drow work. Which is very odd for a subterranean people to be interested in the stars. That will also get the PCs focusing not just on Belcorra, but ultimately on Volluk as well. While the Voidgaunt may be the final boss monster -- it's just a thing. It has no personality, no history, no acting to kidnap fellow citizens hooded and cloaked with a lantern. It has no tragic female lover writing notes about translations of books and keeping a portrait of him in a "Lover's Locket" with his portrait in it. (The drow mentioned by Wrin will point to the drow in the locket when the PCs find it -- and Mister Beak can be used to foreshadow here as well).

I have a LOT more to say about Carman Rajani, as I don't think he was handled very well at all in the official adventure text. So it is up to the GM to furiously fill in backstory there and bring him to life before his scripted Holly wood Moment (as written) while posing real moral quandaries when dealing with Urevian.

I am creating two new quests at the end of Vol 1 to deal with recovery of the relics. The cooperative sword and Smuggler's Cave is being written out. (I hated it). Instead, I am having some of the undead created by the Gauntlight at the beginning of Ch. 2 burst open from the Rajani family vault. Carman will later loot it to get the blade, fair and square. He's not running from Otari -- he's running to be its Mayor. And if the PCs persuade him to help use the sword to open the seal, he will leverage that to paint himself as the Hero of Otari. If the mayor is tucked away at Menhemes Manor doting over his sick daughter -- it jut might work, too.

As my PCs are already close to Mayor Menhemes, I will move the broach to another branch of the Menhemes line -- a far less financially successful one. An old woman Garbi Newhook had the broach but it was left behind by her over-worked son in law when they moved from the Old Fish Camp last fall after the gale hit Otari and sunk Durvin's Query.

[The wreck of the Durvin’s Query interfered with the fisherman's ability to get to the squid fishery at low tide -- which explains why the Old Fish Camp was abandoned. The events surrounding the storm and wreck of the Durvin’s Query form the backstory to PFS 1-04 Bandits of Immenwood. Interestingly, that PFS scenario begins in the recently collapsed Thirsty Alpaca. I'll come back to this later, as I will tie in the fear of the return of the Bandit to help distract the Longsaddle and the town guard later on.]

Anyways, Garbi got the broach from her grandmother and her son-in-law was specifically told to make sure it was packed up and brought back to Otari when they moved. Garbi will be disposed to give it to the PCs after their role in defeating the undead -- and because she is partly of Garundi descent and is a supporter of the Mayor.

Garbi doesn't know that her son-in-law left it behind at the Old Fish Camp. The son-in-law doesn't really remember exactly where it was, they had to leave in a hurry as the wagons were at a premium and they weren't going to wait. He's an overworked fisherman trying to keep his family fed at a time when the fishing had been so bad due to the problems posed by the wreck, they had to abandon their home over it.

Use the Old Fish Camp flip mat in Troubles in Otari and populatre it with encounters you may prefer -- the locals know about crocodiles nesting there after the storm seemed to wreck the crocs usual nesting grounds. So they stay away from the camp now. [Fill it with whatever it is you want. Milestone levelling helps a lot here!]

I was dissatisfied with the possession subplot of Dorianna in the sense that it doesn't seem to have a payoff (I otherwise liked the idea just fine). My plan is to use Dorianna's possession as a matter so profound to Mayor Oseph that he is beside himself with worry, will not leave his daughter's side and won't participate in the election campaigning. Which leaves Rajani in a position where he can actually win - which could prove disastrous to the citizens of Orari.

So solving Dorianna's possession quickly enough will help the Mayor stay the Mayor. Otherwise, Rajani is going to win - and that will be BAD for Otari as Rajani is a self-absorbed, rude, and profoundly dishonest man who will make a terrible mayor -- and will be unresponsive to the dangers posed by the Gauntlight.

I am sure there will be more that will come to mind as Vol 3 gets released and we move forward with the campaign :)


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Many great ideas, thank you Steel_Wind!

I like the idea of making the Denizen of Leng's presence a problem for the PCs to solve because it might lead to a bad mayor being elected for Otari, but I still think that this narrative thread could do with more foreshadowing.

Once again, just two broad ideas:

- Introduce Dorianna's psychic sensitivity to the PCs. For example, when the PCs are introduced to her, she touches one of the PCs (shakes their hand or just brushes against them) then seems startled for a few seconds and tells the PC something like "I am deeply sorry for your loss." or another sentence linked to a secret part of the PC's backstory. She explains that she sometimes "feels" things about people.

- Reusing and revisiting the idea above about the assassin Siora Fallowglade's quirk: instead of cutting the left ear of her victims, she might instead take their left hands. That links her to Ysondkhelir's habit to claim a hand from the creatures he has corrupted. When/if the PCs get information about Belcorra's ancient allies (from Absalom maybe), they might learn that Siora was a very dangerous assassin because she had some sort of psychic powers and that she was said to be addicted to some kind of sleeping drugs that she needed in order to sleep calmly (without it, she had vivid dreams that prevented her from resting). Mostly hints indicating that Siora might have suffered from something similar to Dorianna's "curse", and that this "curse" might have a source that is old and to be found somewhere in the dungeon.

Back in Belcorra's time, Ysondkhelir was attracted by Siora's latent psychic powers and tried to corrupt her: it went as far as insinuating in Siora's mind the desire to take a hand from her victims. Belcorra noticed it and ordered Ysondkhelir not to go too far with Siora (Siora was useful to her, as her main assassin, so she didn't want Ysondkhelir to "damage" her too much).

Liberty's Edge

Dalvyn wrote:

Many great ideas, thank you Steel_Wind!

I like the idea of making the Denizen of Leng's presence a problem for the PCs to solve because it might lead to a bad mayor being elected for Otari, but I still think that this narrative thread could do with more foreshadowing.

Agreed. It needs more work.

Quote:


Reusing and revisiting the idea above about the assassin Siora Fallowglade's quirk: instead of cutting the left ear of her victims, she might instead take their left hands. That links her to Ysondkhelir's habit to claim a hand from the creatures he has corrupted...

This might work and could use some more refinement.

I have no intention of running Smuggler's Cave and I think the passage leading to the fifth level of Gauntlight Ruins from that cave is a very poor idea. I do understand why Paizo included it though; I'm not blaming Ron Lundeen for including it. It needs to be there. And for the same reason, it needs to be expunged from those who played AV1 before opening the Spectral Seal.

This is a megadungeon trilogy, but Paizo's AP volumes are sold as individual books. For flexibility and practical purposes, Paizo felt they needed to present an alternative path into the dungeon that allows a GM to use just this AP volume more discretely without necessarily first using Volume 1. As I see it, that's the main reason for the entry point at B7 (from A3) in Hand of the Devil, whether it is "locked" or not.

But for all the good, practical commercial reasons Paizo needed to include it, I feel pretty strongly that it should be expunged from the dungeon layout for those who ran AV1. At the end of Volume 1, the PCs are presented with a mysterious magical seal that only a group of centuries old relics can open. They must be gathered together and used in a ritual in concert so as to bypass the seal. That's a formidable hoop to jump through to continue with the adventure.

It's a cool idea, too. I like it; I like it a lot. It creates a real reason to leave the dungeon and do other things outside of it before they can continue inside it. Keeping the PCs tied to events outside and inside and switching back and forth between the two is important to combat dungeon fatigue - an all too real problem when running long dungeon crawl campaigns.

Yet, as soon as they jump through that important and complicated hoop - achieving a major milestone in the campaign, the PCs then discover a back door, stretching underground for about a dozen+ miles - to a cave near the abandoned fish camp on the other side of Otari?

How about NO and HELL NO to that idea. Forget it. There is no way I am going to do that. For those who run AV1, its presence cheapens the design of the dungeon and the importance of the barrier the PCs just passed to open the Spectral Seal. Worse, it cheapens the victory and emotional reward of the players. Not the PCs -- the players.

Undermining player enjoyment and satisfaction is a bad, bad thing.

So I was not terribly interested in playing up Siora with those two shadows. But to use her to underscore and foreshadow the Denizen of Leng? I am MUCH more interested in that.

You have my attention!

Liberty's Edge

Just kicking around what you said about Siora's role as famed assassin with a historical reputation back-in-the-day in Absalom...

I like it. But in order to underscore the link to Absalom - how about changing what is behind the West doors at B7 to another teleportation circle. This one also needs to be awakened - but it is still active on the other side. It leads to someplace in the Siphons beneath the disreputable Puddles district of Absalom. The sort of place that Grandmaster Torch used to hole up in.

Seems to me that Grandmaster Torch is exactly the sort of man who might know the obscure lore behind a centuries dead assassin like Siora.

Besides, any excuse to work in Grandmaster Torch into a campaign is an idea I tend to like! :D


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Another idea, that might be of interest to GMs/players who want to take a break from adventuring in the dungeon...

Relatives of Belcorra (or descendants of old allies or simply followers of Nhimbaloth) might learn of the PCs' foray into the dungeon and set up some sort of offensive in order to hamper their efforts: they could simply attack/ambush them or, maybe more interestingly, set up a base camp nearby and gather up allies to oppose the PCs in subtler and more varied ways.

They would most likely act on their own (i.e., not coordinate attacks with Belcorra and her minions), since they would not be able to contact Belcorra directly... they might actually send minions into the dungeon to try and open up the way down (thereby "changing" the dungeon in ways that might seem mysterious to the PCs at first). The PCs would hopefully deduce that there are other actors in play and investigate on the surface (gathering information, examining hints found on their enemies, tracking them through the swamps, maybe capturing and interrogating enemies...).

It might lead them to an old swamp village... abandoned or still inhabited (typical isolated villagers who all seem strange/scary, some of them being cultists of Nhimbaloth with a hidden sanctuary maybe?). The old village might even have been founded by old allies of Belcorra who fled Gauntlight after her defeat, perhaps taking with them some important objects useful in the exploration of the dungeon?

I'm sure there might be some old Dungeon magazine adventures (or maybe even some PF1 adventures) that could be used as inspirations for this addition? If you have suggestions for such adventures, I would really appreciate if you could share them!


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Dalvyn wrote:

Another idea, that might be of interest to GMs/players who want to take a break from adventuring in the dungeon...

Relatives of Belcorra (or descendants of old allies or simply followers of Nhimbaloth) might learn of the PCs' foray into the dungeon and set up some sort of offensive in order to hamper their efforts: they could simply attack/ambush them or, maybe more interestingly, set up a base camp nearby and gather up allies to oppose the PCs in subtler and more varied ways.

That's a great idea. I have already been thinking to add a subplot that takes place in town, with a group of (secret) descendants from the Vaults conspiring against the PCs (or maybe helping them so Belcarra can be freed?).

Them having a secret base in an old village in the swamp (as well as undercover presence in Otari) is a great set piece, with a creepy temple to Nhimbaloth etc. I'm waiting with deciding how this will be shaped until I have the last book though.

A source of inspiration could be the great Feast of Ravenmoor for PF1. It would (of course) have to be modified quite a bit though.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Another idea... this one is about Volluk Azrinae and his transformation...

Spoiler:
...into a worm-that-walks. I struggle to find a good way to foreshadow this event and maybe let the PCs gather information and prepare themselves for a fight against a worm-that-walks.

A few tidbits of information that can be added to the dungeon itself:

- (A19) In the various books and notes left here, the PCs can find hints that Volluk was researching a way to combine various rituals pertaining to post-death transformations

- (A22) Under the destroyed self-portait, a note scratched in the wall reading "Obsolete. Must transcend!"

- (B3) and (C36) Use the three books mentioned in the note to give more hints about Volluk's plans
* The Worm Knows -> necromancy treaty about worms, worm swarms, and other groups of tiny creatures, studying their swarm mind and the way they function as individual intelligent creatures
* Grave Feasts -> necromancy treaty about carrion eaters absorbing the flesh of a dead creature and retaining the memories and abilities of the creature, presenting dying and being consumed simply as a transformation process into another state of being
* Secrets of the Skull -> necromancy treaty with various examples of rituals allowing a creature to turn into a lich after their death, most rituals being personal and working only for one creature but still pointing out a few similarities between the various transformative rituals

As for the ritual itself, the AP volume simply mentions that he "[fed] himself to a vat of ritually prepared leeches" in order to become a worm-that-walks. The Bestiary entry about worms-that-walk reads:

"When a powerful spellcaster with a strong personality, a lust for life, and a remorselessly evil soul dies and is buried in a graveyard infused with eldritch magic, a strange phenomenon can occur. The decaying body fattens and instructs the very worms that feast upon it."

I think that it might be interesting to have this transformation ritual occur during the adventure or maybe just before the adventure begins, so the PCs can actually investigate the place where it happened. As far as I know, having Volluk become a worm-that-walks during the adventure (rather than before it begins) would not break anything in the story (but if I'm wrong, please let me know!)

Option A (linked with the previous idea): if there's an old swamp village nearby, maybe inhabited by descendants of people who fled Gauntlight's dungeon, the ritual might take place in this village's graveyard. The corpse might also be devoured by leeches (instead of worms) to keep the swamp theme.

Option B: the events of "Deadtide for Otari" left the graveyard changed, and certainly "infused with eldritch magic" ; a few days after this event (which Volluk might see as a sign sent by Belcorra), Volluk might go there at night and perform the ritual (burying himself and killing himself in the process). Come morning, the inhabitants of Otari might find a new grave freshly dug, open and empty, an ornate and rune-covered dagger of drow origin abandoned inside, with several worms (or leeches) all around... and ominous squiggly footprints leaving the place...

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In my headcanon, Volluk is not...

Spoiler:
...a worm that walks. Since leeches got him, he's actually a leech that lurks.


Misroi wrote:

In my headcanon, Volluk is not...

** spoiler omitted **

lol


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

One thing I only realized when my players got to Tangletop is that brownies can really latch on to a group that ends up keeping their promises. I ended up running him as a angsty teen brownie who will became secretly in awe of the party after they retrieve the good looking-shiny, following them back to Otari and becoming a "helper" in one of the character's workshops.

He sighs a lot, gets really excited for a moment, and then tries to play it cool with a "or whatever," and he is obsessed with making everything have major goth vibes.

He is a really fun NPC to play with, that might be easy to miss.

Edit: Be sure to play up the fact that Brownies tend to get so over the top playful with language that their sentences can barely make sense and they HATE having their grammar corrected.


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Steel_Wind wrote:

Just kicking around what you said about Siora's role as famed assassin with a historical reputation back-in-the-day in Absalom...

I like it. But in order to underscore the link to Absalom - how about changing what is behind the West doors at B7 to another teleportation circle. This one also needs to be awakened - but it is still active on the other side. It leads to someplace in the Siphons beneath the disreputable Puddles district of Absalom. The sort of place that Grandmaster Torch used to hole up in.

Seems to me that Grandmaster Torch is exactly the sort of man who might know the obscure lore behind a centuries dead assassin like Siora.

Besides, any excuse to work in Grandmaster Torch into a campaign is an idea I tend to like! :D

Steelwind, I am not up to date on the lore or Paizo's modules.

What is AV1 which you are referring to?

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
larsenex wrote:
Steel_Wind wrote:

Just kicking around what you said about Siora's role as famed assassin with a historical reputation back-in-the-day in Absalom...

I like it. But in order to underscore the link to Absalom - how about changing what is behind the West doors at B7 to another teleportation circle. This one also needs to be awakened - but it is still active on the other side. It leads to someplace in the Siphons beneath the disreputable Puddles district of Absalom. The sort of place that Grandmaster Torch used to hole up in.

Seems to me that Grandmaster Torch is exactly the sort of man who might know the obscure lore behind a centuries dead assassin like Siora.

Besides, any excuse to work in Grandmaster Torch into a campaign is an idea I tend to like! :D

Steelwind, I am not up to date on the lore or Paizo's modules.

What is AV1 which you are referring to?

I think they are referring to "Abomination Vaults volume 1"


Ok thanks, I have all three modules to Abomination Vaults and the tunnel seems kind of lame. I am going to change it to an 'inactive' pad.


An old thread, but my two cents in regards to the tunnel. It's fine. It's great even! Megadungeons are at their best when they have many different ways to get inside, not just a single front door. In no way does it cheapen the accomplishments of gathering the relics of the Roseguard.

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