|
Vulnerabilties (Ex or Su) A creature with vulnerabilities takes half again as much damage (+50%) from a specific energy type, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed or if the save is a success or failure.
The one that takes the extra damage is the creature, not the spell or effect protecting it. So, first, you apply whatever protection it has, then you apply the vulnerability to the leftover damage.
Thanks everyone, one more question not as related to this if folks don't mind. Noticed someone in another thread talking about Aqueous Orb, and was wondering if someone got caught by that on the round that the caster moves it and fails their reflex save...and then it comes to their turn, do they make a reflex save on their turn or do they make that save on the turn of the caster?
If they make the save on their turn, wouldn't that effectively give them 2 saves per round and make it disadvantageous for the caster to act before them?
it help if you add the relevant text, from the spell:
"Any creature in the path of the aqueous orb takes 2d6 points of nonlethal damage. A successful Reflex save negates this damage, but a large or smaller creature that fails its save must make a second save or be engulfed by the aqueous orb and carried along with it. Engulfed creatures are immersed in water and must hold their breath unless capable of breathing water. They gain cover against attacks from outside the aqueous orb but are considered entangled by its churning currents, takes 2d6 points of nonlethal damage at the beginning of their turn each round they remain trapped. Creatures within the orb may attempt a new Reflex save each round to escape into a random square adjacent to the aqueous orb. The orb may hold one Large creature, 4 Medium, or 16 Small or smaller creatures within it."so about the saves, usually unless it mentions that they are done on the target's turn are rolled on the caster's turns. this time it's confusing since the sentence before talk about taking damage at the start of their turn, but the word your looking for here is round, not turn. the rounds count happen right before the caster turn. (like in the monk's stunning fist ability that ticks off just before the monks next turn as they last 1 round)
it goes:
- caster turn, water orb enter a target's area. target roll a save to neg damage, if save, all good, if fail take damage and must roll again or be sucked in and being entangled in the orb.
as entangle depend on the question whether it is considered encored or not. id say in a way he is encored in the orb as he can't leave it without making a save.
- in the target's turn he is entangled in the orb, take damage and need to hold breath if he need to breath. he can't leave until he makes a save but doesn't get to make one yet! (think of it like the stunning fist target that failed his save and is now stunned in his turn. this guy is caught in the washing machine cycle).
- at the start of the caster's next turn - which count as a new round for spell duration, anyone caught in the orb get a new save to go out. save and he is out, fail and he is still in for one more round.
do note that being entangled doesn't mean stunned. the target can still take his turn with the limitation of being entangled (penalties and encored to the orb so can't move out) and underwater (so might have problem casting spells etc). he can still try to shoot out of the water or attack nearby targets within his reach (with the water probably providing cover or worse for bow attack out of water etc, see the rules for attacking from within water outside)
in a way this can be a nice sparring challenge. like a magical hard-mode cage match( +wet t-shirt?).
since the orb is big enough you can have two medium or smaller target willingly getting inside by failing their save and then battle each other in the orb. anyone leaving the orb by making the save is 'out of bounds' and forfeit the fight.
once the spell's duration is off it's a 'combat round' end and if no victor is declared more rounds can start. "then let the 2nd\3rd\4th round start!"
|
|
"may attempt a new Reflex save each round"
zza ni, I agree with your interpretation if the save is made as an automatic action, but what happens if the target tries to leave the orb (i.e. tries to save) as a standard or full-round action?
The Entangled and the Engulfed conditions don't stop the target from acting.
The target is Entangled, and entangle says: "Entangled creatures can attempt to break free as a move action, making a Strength or Escape Artist check."
To make an example with another spell, Hold person says: "Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity."
I would like a clarification from a Dev or the author, but I doubt we will ever see one.
BTW, the orb damage the target twice the first round (once when cast, the second time at the start of the trapped creature turn), it seems correct to allow it to get two saves to free itself (the second after they have taken damage the second time).
"may attempt a new Reflex save each round"
zza ni, I agree with your interpretation if the save is made as an automatic action, but what happens if the target tries to leave the orb (i.e. tries to save) as a standard or full-round action?
The Entangled and the Engulfed conditions don't stop the target from acting.
The target is Entangled, and entangle says: "Entangled creatures can attempt to break free as a move action, making a Strength or Escape Artist check."
To make an example with another spell, Hold person says: "Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity."
I would like a clarification from a Dev or the author, but I doubt we will ever see one.
BTW, the orb damage the target twice the first round (once when cast, the second time at the start of the trapped creature turn), it seems correct to allow it to get two saves to free itself (the second after they have taken damage the second time).
yes. i would agree that a gm probably should allow the target to try a new save on his turn, but by strict 'raw' he doesn't get one. (is why i kept mentioning the example of stunning fist target who also doesn't get a save in his turn)
as specific trump general and this specific spell doesn't mention a save on the target's turn (like in other spell like hold person), nor does it allow escape artist or str checks (it seem this is a unique entangle condition, usual entangle is with something rope-like or web like that well... 'entangle' the body of the target and can be torn off or slipped off. here it's water. kind hard to grasp it).
i also think that since the orb can nab multiple targets the dev that designed it set the save to be at one specific time rather then have each roll in his turn.
2 things to notice as well
1 the target fail a save before each time he takes damage. He might take damage twice in the first round. But he also got a save to avoid each.
2 unlike hold person where the target is helpless and can be killed with a full round action. This target is merly panilzied. He get a save each round and doesnt even need to use an action to try it.
Onthe other hand. Say he make the save on the begining of the casters turn. The caster if the spell is still oncan attempt to recapture him. Allowing 2 saves again as above.