Activity involving 2 strikes and hidden condition

[Danscath]

In the case of a activity for example Double Shot when u already have triple shot so you can use double to the same target. The text says;

You shoot twice in blindingly fast succession. "Make two Strikes, each against a separate target and with a –2 penalty. Both attacks count toward your..."

If you are hidden, those two strikes are resolved as a hidden or only the first one?

Before anwer it cause, hidden specify "strike" and the quick think "is only the first one" I have this question for this rules:

1) The difference between activities and single actions, in page 461 of Core Rulebook; "An activity typically involves using multiple actions to create an effect greater than you can produce with a single action, or combining multiple single actions to produce an effect that’s different from merely the sum of those actions"

And the reason cause Im saying Double Shot it's a activity, well cause the symbol of >> in the table on that same page say it, "Two-Action Activity"

2) Simultaneous Actions in page 462 sidebar; "You can use only one single action, activity, or free action that doesn’t have a trigger at a time. You must complete one before beginning another."

At this point my think is Double Shot it's a activity which involve 2 strikes as subordinate actions so we go to the point 3

3)Subordinate Actions; An action might allow you to use a simpler action—usually one of the Basic Actions on page 469—in a different circumstance or with different effects. This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but is modified in any ways listed in the larger action

And then at the end of that point; As another example, if you used an action that specified, “If the next action you use is a Strike,” an activity that includes a Strike wouldn’t count, because the next thing you are doing is starting an activity, not using the Strike basic action

For that I have dome doubts about it, if you are hidden and you start a activity (double shot) which involve 2 subordinate basic actions (2 strikes) if you are hidden and then you start a activity instead (double shot) of a strike basic action, the second attack catch the enemy flat-flooted.

And what happen with Hunted shot, its a simple action but in the same way include 2 subodrinate basic actions (2 strikes too)

Im still thinking, that only the first one count as you are hidden as the hide action (page 261) text is the next; You cease being hidden if you do anything except Hide, Sneak, or Step. If you attempt to Strike a creature, the creature remains flatfooted against that attack, and you then become observed

But I dont know anymore xD cause now I think about subordinate actions in simple actions or activities and im confused

[Gary Bush]

I think you are looking at it the right way. For Hunted Shot, only the first Strike would gain benefit of the flat-footed condition as both Strikes are hitting the same target.

For Double Shot, each target is separate so would count separately for purposes of being hidden.

It is possible that the character is hidden from one target but not the other.

[Gortle]

Yes Twin Takedown, Hunted Shot, DoubleShot interesting.

What if you are only hidden because of level 2 Invisibility?

(If the target uses a hostile action, the spell ends after that hostile action is completed)

[Danscath]

Gary Bush wrote:

I think you are looking at it the right way. For Hunted Shot, only the first Strike would gain benefit of the flat-footed condition as both Strikes are hitting the same target.

For Double Shot, each target is separate so would count separately for purposes of being hidden.

It is possible that the character is hidden from one target but not the other.

Well I was thinking in double shot to the same target (with triple shot feat, allow you to do that)

If double shot or hunted shot are actions/activities with the strikes as subordinates action, the sidebar of subordinate actions say

"As another example, if you used an action that specified, “If the next action you use is a Strike,” an activity that includes a Strike wouldn’t count, because the next thing you are doing is starting an activity, not using the Strike basic action"

The next activity or action im doing after hide its not strike, its a activity or action with strike as subordinate action

That why im so confused now...

[shroudb]

so, the important part here is that there is no <=> between actions and activities, only =>

that is, "an activity with subordinate actions will dop the exact actions except from the parts where it specifically modifies them" BUT that doesn't alsop mean that those actions qualify as the activity.

so, if there's text that says "if your next action is X" you can only use X, not an activity that has X within it.
BUT the activity will still do X as normal (excpet where it specifically modifies it).

So, going back to the original question:

the strikes within the activities will behave exactly as you would expect a strike to behave.

The only difference due to them being inside an activity is exactly and ONLY how the activity modifies them.

So, the real question here is if "make two strikes" modifies them to shoot at the exact same time or one after another.

If it's one after another, then the 1st one breaks stealth. If they are both simultaneously, then they don't.

I do not think this part is covered by RAW, so i think you will see table variation regarding this.

This is very similar to a question asked quite a few times already with "can you switch targets of your flurry of blows if your 1st target dies" or to put it more simply "do you have to declare targets before you do ALL the attacks in an activity with multiple attacks, or can you roll each strike and choose after you see the result of each strike indipendently"

if we say that you are locked in selecting targets before ALL attack rools of an activity, then you can also say that they are simultaneous, but if we say that you can see the result of each strike, then they are obviously not simultaneous.

[Gary Bush]

Danscath wrote:

Well I was thinking in double shot to the same target (with triple shot feat, allow you to do that)

The feat specifically says the Strikes go against separate targets.

Think of each Strike as if it was the only action happening in that turn when determining what impacts the Strike.