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Guns really don't suck though.
But they do... You have to buy into crit fishing to think otherwise.
1 crit with a arquebus is better than 3 regular hits with a longbow.
That's good as it took 3 actions minimum to do... You aren't impressing me in the least.
The dueling pistol is a L weapon. Meaning you can carry 10 of them for 1 bulk. 1d6 base is great (d10 fatal) with a weapon you can draw and drop over and over again and it sounds like the developers are already looking into ways to give us a bandoleer or brace of pistols option for covering runes.
SO I can fire a pile of non-magic pistols instead of my single Striking (Major) hand crossbow! Wow that sounds amazing... :I can't playtest something not in the playtest so mythical items not in them, aren't in them. NOTHING in the current playtest makes this even remotely viable. P
There are rough patches in the implementation of making the different options work smoothly with the way players will want them to work, but it isn't necessary to try to wrestle firearms around when crossbows pretty effectively cover the weapon design niche that people seem to be complaining that guns don't.
I just want guns to be better than crossbows at something. ANYTHING really. To me, fatal murders mooks and causes less on bosses: sounds fine for an option if your in to peasant slaying but for every gun? No thank you.
Guns really don't suck though. Especially not for the gun slinger. Not simple ones nor martial ones, (well maybe the hand cannon). The average damage of guns in comparison to crossbows, very quickly shifts in the guns advantage with only a slight boost in accuracy vs the targets AC.
1 crit with a arquebus is better than 3 regular hits with a longbow.
Yeah, I like that guns encourage tactical play. I'd rather not have gunslingers solo-ing adventures, again.
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Yeah, I like that guns encourage tactical play.
How exactly does fatal encourage tactical play? What weapon traits discourages it? What would the lack of traits encourage/discourage? For instance, can you explain why a fatal Flintlock Pistol is such a huge boon to tactics while a Hand Crossbow is lacking?
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Guns really don't suck though. Especially not for the gun slinger. Not simple ones nor martial ones, (well maybe the hand cannon). The average damage of guns in comparison to crossbows, very quickly shifts in the guns advantage with only a slight boost in accuracy vs the targets AC.
Yes, guns outperform crossbows when crits are more likely to happen. Unfortunately, the crossbow is ill used as a primary character tool because its damage is considered subpar on average. Hence why most players that want to do ranged damage stick with a bows, which blow guns away (no pun intended).
1 crit with a arquebus is better than 3 regular hits with a longbow.
And one crit with a longbow is better than three hits with an arquebus, which will take three rounds to produce. What point are you trying to make here, exactly?
The dueling pistol is a L weapon. Meaning you can carry 10 of them for 1 bulk. 1d6 base is great (d10 fatal) with a weapon you can draw and drop over and over again and it sounds like the developers are already looking into ways to give us a bandoleer or brace of pistols option for covering runes.
Yes, for 120 gold and a feat, you can carry 10 dueling pistols and use the Quick Draw action for every attack. Or you could get a composite shortbow for 14 gold, do more base damage with roughly the same crit damage, and use other attack options besides Quick Draw without worrying about what to do if the combat runs over three rounds and you run out of pistols.
There are rough patches in the implementation of making the different options work smoothly with the way players will want them to work, but it isn't necessary to try to wrestle firearms around when crossbows pretty effectively cover the weapon design niche that people seem to be complaining that guns don't.
Except that:
A. Crossbows don't cover that weapon design at all. They still suck, they just suck slightly less at consistent damage dealing than guns do. That might change to some degree with martial crossbows, but we have no way of knowing that.B. This may be a bit of stretch, but maybe someone playing a class called a 'Gunslinger' might want to use guns without having to rely on a stretch of luck that I've certainly never been privy to in order to do damage that is still worse than a bow will produce in the the same situation.
This is the playtest. This is the time to make suggestions. We don't have to get rid of the current crit fishing options for those who like them, but we shouldn't be stuck with them for those who don't.
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My General consensus is each "way" should be given a free lvl 1 feat off the bat that gives them extra damage.
Pistolero should have a Point blank stance.
Sniper should get a sneak attack.
Drifter should get multi attack.
Damage math enhancer feats should be a core of the class not a choice otherwise nobody will pick anything else.
I don't think consensus is something you do as a single person. Unless you're hearing voices :P
I don't really agree with your opinion. I think the damage for firearms should be balanced to the point that they're a reasonable option for any martial class that's about on par with bows. So probably more damage per hit than bows, but compensated by the reload giving you fewer attacks per round.
IMO the gimmick of the gunslinger shouldn't be "only class that is effective enough with guns to want to use them". Rather it should be that they make guns particularly interesting instead of "just another OK weapon".
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Boy, did this escalate. I like that most agree on firearm ace.
Just gonna make a comment that I like the fatal trait on guns.
If you dislike it, use the blunderbuss
Giving all reload weapons +1 or 2 circumstance bonus might be a good balance allaround, maybe even per reload trait (making heavy crossbows somewhat viable and snipey, and make some heavy long rifles "viable"), limited to 1st range increment or not
Shooters aim is a bad feat too (because as written, it is a must take for snipers) however, I do have a feeling sniper weapons will undergo some change
Talisman dabbler archetype makes it easy to carry and "sacrifice" pistols with high damage output, atleast until lvl 10 ish.
Jezail would be better name for the sniper rifle than arquebus, and arquebus the "soldiers rifle"
I wish there would be less trash talk and more actual mechanical talk
Guns get versatile that should not be underestimated and I personally hope for a more logical and slightly better trait that let's gm choose the best damage type (between P and B)
Gunslinger is a support class with fast reactions, luck and cool tricks.
I just wanted to bring out the thought some might oversee
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If you dislike it, use the blunderbuss
Well that's not real helpful for people that use simple weapons, those that want to have a range increment better than 15' and whose that aren't interested in damaging everything in a cone... :P
Talisman dabbler archetype
There are about 87 archetypes I'd pick before this one. It's hard to put into words how unimpressed I am with talismans.
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It is good to have the fatal trait on some guns. It is awful to get it on almost all guns, which then requires the Gunslinger poaching the Fighter's proficiency without all the nice Fighter tactical choices and not getting more well-rounded abilities. And basically forces the crit-fishing builds and playstyle.
Having these as an option is good. Them being compulsory is terrible.
Talisman dabbler archetypeThere are about 87 archetypes I'd pick before this one. It's hard to put into words how unimpressed I am with talismans.
Talismans are actually ridiculous at higher levels because they generally fully scale with your character.
As an example, at level 12 an Iron Equalizer is not worth it for 400gp, but becomes insanely high value at higher levels. At level 18 400gp to turn a failure into a hit for a Certain Strike Fighter is truly absurd value for money.
They are very poorly balanced.
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Talisman dabbler archetypeThere are about 87 archetypes I'd pick before this one. It's hard to put into words how unimpressed I am with talismans.Talismans are actually ridiculous at higher levels because they generally fully scale with your character.
As an example, at level 12 an Iron Equalizer is not worth it for 400gp, but becomes insanely high value at higher levels. At level 18 400gp to turn a failure into a hit for a Certain Strike Fighter is truly absurd value for money.
They are very poorly balanced.
If I have to wait for 18th level for it to turn out good, I'm not interested.
Second, you can never use an Iron Equalizer with temp talismans: "Each day during your daily preparations, you can make two talismans with an item level no higher than half your level." So Iron Equalizer requires you to pay for it with or without the archetype.