When do PCs roll against a poison effect?


Rules Questions


Ok - I’m certain this has been asked before, but I really can’t find it anywhere.

When do you make a PC who is poisoned roll? Like bleed, at the beginning of their turn? Or at the end of their turn?

More generally, when do you get PCs to roll against something imposed upon them?

Many thanks for asking a question that I’m sure has been previously answered...


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Poisons wrote:


When you are initially exposed to a poison (whether during your action or someone else’s), you must make a save to avoid being poisoned.
Success You resist being poisoned. You do not suffer any ill effects and you need not make any further saves.
Failure You are poisoned and immediately suffer the listed effect. You will need to make further saves to avoid more damage and cure the poison.

Exception If the poison has an onset period, failing the initial check does NOT cause you to suffer any effects.
If you are exposed to more of the same poison at any point while you are poisoned, you need to make a new initial save at +2 DC.
Success You resist the new dose and carry on as if it never happened (this success does not count toward the requisite “consecutive saves” for curing any poison that is already in your system)
Failure The DC for all subsequent checks are increased by 2 and the duration of the poison is increased by half of the listed value. (eg if you are poisoned with a poison with a DC 11, being exposed again forces you to make a save at DC 13. If you fail this, all your future checks to cure the poison, avoid damage, or resist being poisoned again are at DC 13 – and the duration is increased by half. If you are exposed for a third time, you would need to save at DC 15 against the new dose, etc)
For the onset period, nothing happens (if there is no onset, the next step happens right away!)
At the next frequency interval (your next turn for 1/round poisons, 1 minute later for 1/minute, next day for 1/day) you must make a save on your turn (at any point during your turn – you must still make this save if you choose to delay).
Success You suffer no ill effects and now have a save towards curing the poison.
If the poison requires only one save to cure, you are cured and no longer need to make saves.
Failure You suffer the listed effects again.
Repeat the previous step until you fulfill either score enough consecutive saves to cure the poison or the duration runs out.

Poisons with initial and secondary effects

For poisons without an onset, failing the initial save causes you to suffer the initial effect of the poison. The subsequent saves are made against the secondary effect.
For poisons with an onset, failing the initial save causes you to be poisoned but not suffer any ill effect. Failing the first save after the onset causes you suffer the initial effect of the poison. Any subsequent saves are made against the secondary effect.

Special If you are exposed to multiple doses of a poison with initial and secondary effects, you only suffer the initial effect once. Subsequent exposures cause you to suffer the secondary effect and add duration to secondary effects.

Poison Rules

Basically as soon as you're exposed to the poison, you make an initial Save. If you pass this, then you're not poisoned, if you fail this, then you are poisoned and now need to make saves at the Frequency listed for each poison. These Frequencies are going to differ per poison, and these are typically 1/round, or 1/minute, or 1/hr. And if you failed your initial save, then you would start making saves at each of the listed frequency until they are Cured. Sometimes the "Cured" is 1 successful save, or 2 consecutive saves, or 2 saves (non-consecutive) etc.

An onset period is for poisons that don't immediately cause their symptoms. And you wouldn't start your secondary Saves until this Onset period finishes. For poisons that have onsets, symptoms start in 10 minutes, 1 round, 1d4 hours, or 1d4 days, or w/e the time is listed-- this also differs per poison; see the bolded rule above regarding Poisons with onsets: the Initial Effect of the poison does not affect you until the Onset period has ended AND you fail the first secondary save. If there is no onset, the symptoms start immediately (and so do the secondary saves). Inhaled poisons typically have no onset periods, but ingested poisons typically do, etc.


Example poison:

Witch-Hunter’s Sword
ingested
DC: 19
Onset: 10 min
Frequency: 1/hr. for 8 hrs
Effect: 1 Int, Wis, and Cha dmg, Concentration check penalty; see text
Cure: 2 consecutive saves

Witch-Hunter's Sword Poison wrote:


Witch-Hunter’s Sword

Price 850 gp; Weight —

ABOUT

This red fern has jagged, forward-pointing leaves and grows in small, close-packed groups. It is named for its popularity among witch hunters and inquisitors, and its leaves can be brewed into a tea that clouds the subject’s mind, interfering with the ability to cast spells while still leaving the subject lucid enough to be interrogated. The tea has a unique taste, which can be detected with a successful DC 20 Perception check. Attempts to disguise the taste require a Profession (cook) check (or a Wisdom check, for untrained characters) opposed by the drinker’s Perception check. At the GM’s discretion, bonuses can be applied based on the ingredients used to mask the taste.

DETAILS

Type poison, ingested; Save Fortitude DC 19; Onset 10 minutes; Frequency 1/hour for 8 hours; Cure 2 consecutive saves

EFFECT

1 Int, Wis, and Cha damage. As long as this poison persists, the victim takes a –5 penalty on concentration checks. In addition, a creature suffering from witch-hunter’s sword poison must succeed at a concentration check (DC = 20 + double the spell’s level) to cast spells or use spell-like abilities.

So let's say you get tricked into eating a bowl of chili laced with Witch-Hunter's Sword.

You make an Initial Save vs. the DC of 19 as soon as you eat the chili.

If successful, you are not poisoned. If you fail this, you are poisoned.

If poisoned, the onset is 10 minutes. 10 minutes elapse without any symptoms. You make no saves during this time.

After this 10 minutes elapse, the poison starts to take effect and you make your first Secondary Save. If you successfully save vs. this check, you are still poisoned (because the Cure is 2 consecutive saves) but you are still not suffering effects. If you fail this check, you are now suffering the effect of 1 Int, Wis, and Cha dmg, Concentration check penalty.

1 hour later, you make your 2nd secondary save. If you pass this after passing your 1st secondary save, you are now cured because you made two consecutive saves. If you fail this after passing the 1st save, you are now suffering the effects. If you fail this after failing the first save, you are still suffering the effects.

1 hour later, you make your 3rd secondary save.

1 hour later, you make your 4th secondary save.

This is going to continue for 8 total hours, or until you make 2 consecutive saves. Or until someone casts a spell on you to Delay or Neutralize the poison.


Thanks for all this. I guess I just wanted to know when you made that PC roll - at the beginning or end of her / his turn...


SunKing wrote:
Thanks for all this. I guess I just wanted to know when you made that PC roll - at the beginning or end of her / his turn...
Poison Rules wrote:

When you are initially exposed to a poison (whether during your action or someone else’s), you must make a save to avoid being poisoned.
Success You resist being poisoned. You do not suffer any ill effects and you need not make any further saves.
Failure You are poisoned and immediately suffer the listed effect. You will need to make further saves to avoid more damage and cure the poison.
Exception If the poison has an onset period, failing the initial check does NOT cause you to suffer any effects.
If you are exposed to more of the same poison at any point while you are poisoned, you need to make a new initial save at +2 DC.
Success You resist the new dose and carry on as if it never happened (this success does not count toward the requisite “consecutive saves” for curing any poison that is already in your system)
Failure The DC for all subsequent checks are increased by 2 and the duration of the poison is increased by half of the listed value. (eg if you are poisoned with a poison with a DC 11, being exposed again forces you to make a save at DC 13. If you fail this, all your future checks to cure the poison, avoid damage, or resist being poisoned again are at DC 13 – and the duration is increased by half. If you are exposed for a third time, you would need to save at DC 15 against the new dose, etc)
For the onset period, nothing happens (if there is no onset, the next step happens right away!)
At the next frequency interval (your next turn for 1/round poisons, 1 minute later for 1/minute, next day for 1/day) you must make a save on your turn (at any point during your turn – you must still make this save if you choose to delay).
Success You suffer no ill effects and now have a save towards curing the poison.
If the poison requires only one save to cure, you are cured and no longer need to make saves.
Failure You suffer the listed effects again.
Repeat the previous step until you fulfill either score enough consecutive saves to cure the poison or the duration runs out.

Poisons with initial and secondary effects

For poisons without an onset, failing the initial save causes you to suffer the initial effect of the poison. The subsequent saves are made against the secondary effect.
For poisons with an onset, failing the initial save causes you to be poisoned but not suffer any ill effect. Failing the first save after the onset causes you suffer the initial effect of the poison. Any subsequent saves are made against the secondary effect.
Special If you are exposed to multiple doses of a poison with initial and secondary effects, you only suffer the initial effect once. Subsequent exposures cause you to suffer the secondary effect and add duration to secondary effects.


Any time during your turn! Ok - thanks!


Np, glad to help ;)


Whenever I want them to...

If a Grippli Veneficus Witch (actually pretty much anyone can do this) makes an Infused Poison with a Toxic Spell, then uses it to cast a different Toxic Spell:

Spell + Poison + Spell + Poison

Liberty's Edge

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FAQ wrote:

Poison: How exactly does poison stack with itself? How and when are the saves made? How do you determine the DC for the save when the target is exposed to more than one dose of the poison?

A character receives a saving throw against poison whenever he is exposed to the poison (such as when he is hit by an attack that uses poison). The DC of the save of that poison is listed in the poison's description, but is increased by +2 for every dose of the poison currently affecting the target (not counting the new dose that is being saved against). Poisons that have been cured or have ended do not count. In addition, a poisoned creature must save against poison once on his turn, but this can be at any point during the poisoned creature's turn. It cannot be delayed through readying or delaying action. For more information on poison and how it stacks, see the Poison FAQ blog post.
posted March 2011 | back to top


Nah, Toxic Spell makes it a save as part of the spell's save. That's when I say. Zap. And if I am using an Infused Poison that is "infused" with a Toxic Spell as the component to a separate Toxic Spell... that's TWO spells and TWO poisons, right meow...


Thanks all. Seriously - have a great holiday. This a great community.

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