Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Xulgaths have stench auras with the olfactory trait. Any suggestions on how to handle efforts by the PCs to avoid the aura by plugging their noses with wax or something similar? If they took such a step, would you allow characters to completely avoid the aura, give them a +1 or +2 status bonus to their save against the aura, or decide that the aura still has its normal effect?
If there's a bonus to saves or avoidance of the aura entirely, should there be some drawback to counterbalance the benefit? For example, I was thinking that any character plugging their nose might gained the Fatigued condition during combat because they can't take in as much oxygen while exerting themselves. Here's my initial thought on a mechanic:
Any character taking steps to plug or cover their nose gains a +2 status bonus to Fortitude saves against olfactory effects, but is Fatigued during combat due to reduced airflow.
I am certain that my players will try to plug their noses or cover their noses/mouths with a wet rag or do something similar once they start encountering xulgaths. Suggestions on whether my suggested approach makes sense and is balanced, or recommendations for alternative approaches, would be appreciated.
I don't think plugging the character's nose would work - the nasal cavities are connected to the mouth, and the character will still be breathing (hopefully...).
A vinegar (or possibly other strong smelling substance) soaked rag over the nose & mouth might work. I don't think I'd give characters a penalty for planning ahead like this - although unless they set up some sort of mask to put on, it would probably use up a hand (no 2 handed weapons for you, nor holding a weapon in 1 hand and casting, nor sword and board fighting...).
I'd probably give them a +1 circumstance bonus for a clever effort! Something to acknowledge the good idea that will eventually lose relevance as the characters get more powerful and the players (at least mine) likely get less interested in those lower level solutions.
Andrew Mullen wrote: I'd probably give them a +1 circumstance bonus for a clever effort! Something to acknowledge the good idea that will eventually lose relevance as the characters get more powerful and the players (at least mine) likely get less interested in those lower level solutions. Are you referring to how the necessity of actively protecting yourself against Xulgath diminishes as you level out of their range?
Or are you referring to there being other effects that provide circumstance bonuses that comes online at higher levels?
I guess I would be inclined to do the reverse.
I believe the DC is meant to be the one actually encountered by heroes in the general case. Offering a trivial way of reducing it doesn't seem to be how the challenge is intended to come across.
That is: the first time the heroes get a whiff of Xulgath stench unprepared, give them a -1 penalty. Then when they say they take precautions, stop applying the penalty and run the encounters as is.
If the heroes are clever enough to take the measures right away, before encountering any Xulgath, their reward isn't a campaign-wide nerf of the Stench ability. Instead, it is a much more appropriate reward: one that lasts for a single encounter (two at most).
Zapp wrote:
Are you referring to how the necessity of actively protecting yourself against Xulgath diminishes as you level out of their range?
Or are you referring to there being other effects that provide circumstance bonuses that comes online at higher levels?
The latter! There might not actually be such higher level circumstance bonuses now that I think about it, though, since I've mostly seen them in heritages and the like.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Given that this is a xulgath racial ability and they're the main antagonist of this AP, I expect making saves against their stench will be a continual issue for parties. I'm seeing increasing DCs against the stench as higher-level xulgaths show up in later modules. I'd be shocked if any party didn't take steps (at least after the first few encounters) to try to mitigate the effect of the stench.
I'm not inclined to give a penalty to an "unprepared" party and then remove it when they decide to take steps to reduce the stench. I'd rather give them an item bonus or status bonus for taking that step. I suppose the nature of the bonus might depend on how they go about it. For example, a coroner would use menthol rub or something to mitigate the smell. If a character said they were using Nature to identify some sort of strong smelling herb to block the smell, I might allow them to find something if the local terrain permitted and they rolled a critical success on their Nature check, with the usage of the herb being very limited (1-2 uses at most).
Alternatively, if they're blocking up their nose with wax or something, then maybe no adjustment is appropriate (as you note, they still have to breathe).
It just seems like something that any intelligent player is inevitably going to ask about and I'd like to be prepared to address it.
Let me phrase it like this:
If the party needs to expend resources commensurable to the threat faced, or rather, to the bonus gained, then that sounds like the balanced approach.
For instance, if they can concoct "menthol herbs" (or whatever) that protects against Xulgath stench for and have that be an level-appropriate cost, then it wouldn't just be a "free nerf" to the enemy.
Let me provide an example solution that I feel is more in the spirit of the game, and its approach to balance:
A level 2 "menthol pouch" that lowers any smell-based DC of 16 or lower by one step for ten minutes to the character using it costs 6 gold.
A level 4 "menthol pouch" that lowers any smell-based DC of 19 or lower by one step for ten minutes to the character using it costs 18 gold.
Since the benefit is limited we allow it to last for more than one encounter. (10 minutes could be used for two or maybe three back-to-back encounters)
The point here: just taking obvious steps should not trivially reduce a monster ability. Saying "we protect ourselves against Xulgath stencth" is easy. Getting bonuses should not be that easy. At the very least, require the heroes to wrap themselves so tight they get a -1 penalty to Perception whenever they want a +1 bonus to saves vs stench, if they really want something for free.
Why shouldn't it be that easy? If your players are smart enough to come up with that solution then you should let them. I guarantee you my players wouldn't think up something like that.
Zioalca wrote: Why shouldn't it be that easy? If your players are smart enough to come up with that solution then you should let them. I guarantee you my players wouldn't think up something like that. I don't consider the following exchange very smart:
"They smell bad"
"We cover our noses"
"You escape getting -1"
YMMV, but if it was this trivial, I would have preferred it if the rulebook just lowered the DCs across the board for "olfactory" saves.
Another approach would be something akin to the "averting your eyes" trope that many rpgs offer rules for regarding Basilisks, Medusas and the like (though not PF2).
Let me phrase that differently:
There are no codified bonuses for averting your eyes in PF2.
I submit that the RAI is for Petrifying Gaze as well as Stench to impact heroes assuming they take obvious precautions.
If they do more than that, they can have bonuses, but only if they accept penalties as well.
For instance, a reasonable houserule for averting your eyes is that you gain a -1 penalty to abilities that target AC or Reflex (-1 to attacks, +1 to target's Reflex save).
Then you gain a +1 bonus to the save that you try to avoid for every additional -1 penalty you accept. That is, take -2 to gain +1; take -3 to gain +2 and so on.
Of course you can be outright generous and just hand out bonuses for free. I'm not arguing against that. I'm only arguing against thinking that's the baseline of PF2.
Ok, so there stench is overwhelming according to the book. I agree with you something as simple as holding your nose shut should not work and it is your call to decide if it does. If you want to provide something like what you listed to help adjust the DC, you as the GM can do that.
I guess I just don't see why this is a problem. You make a judgement call that best suits your group. There are rules for holding your breath in the CRB that you can go with which should give you more of the penalty you are looking for. When my party gets there I'm going to tell them they can either hold their breath or they need to come up with a creative way to deal with it. Making some kind of de-odorizer like you have suggested is possible but it takes time and money to make. I would say it should not cost on level gold to make. Anyone can wrap up a bunch of herbs into some kind of face mask to help get over an odor. A druid or ranger or someone trained in nature should be able to find what they need or they can just go back to town and buy what they need. I'll also go ahead and note that the adventure says the surround vegetation is dieing so I would increase the DC for the nature check to hard for finding the herbs needed.
Finally I'll go ahead and say that you as a GM are expected to be agile when running a game. You are expected to know all the rules and it is up to you to decide how they are used. If you say that because a thing doesn't exist in the rules then your players can't do it, that is your call. Always feel free to come here and ask questions and seek guidance but remember that we can all only give you our opinion because nothing is set in stone. Any rule in any book can have an exception and most RPGs are filled with exceptions to the rules in their own books.
Sounds like the 1st level spell negate aroma would be useful for this campaign.
Kennethray wrote: Sounds like the 1st level spell negate aroma would be useful for this campaign. Thank you for your good-faith suggestion.
Alas, if you read the spell more carefully you'll find it doesn't do what you want.
But thanks for the suggestion anyway. Had it worked, it would have been very clever.
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