Yangthe feeding tentacles....doesn't work mechanically, does it?

[Tpy0]

Alright, got a weird one.

Last night, we were running this creature: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/yangethe/

Under it's ability "Feeding Tentacles": As a standard action, a yangethe can use its mouth tenta/cles to feed on a helpless creature or a creature it is currently grappling. In this case, if the yangethe hits with a melee touch attack, the feeding

Mechanically, this doesn't work, does it? The monster has grab (ex) but on anything other than a helpless target, you wouldn't be able to initiate the feed, would you not?

Think of this scenario - the Yangthe attacks as a standard action, free action grabs. It is unable to use it's "Feeding Tentacles"

Ah, ok so it has to be next turn...except, maintaining a grapple is a standard action....and the ability is a standard action.

Am I missing something? I feel like monsters run into these grapple issues all the time, but as deeply as I study the rules I can't find anything other than

"Do all your tentacle attacks, constrict, release, attack again." due to the flawed action economy of maintaining a grapple.

Maybe the argument could be made that you could do the feed as part of your full attack action but...that's pretty house-ruley.

Would love to hear people's thoughts.

[MrCharisma]

I think the specific-trumps-general rule is in place here. It looks like the Feed option is in place of maintaining a grapple. As you say it has Grab, so if the attack succeeds it can also attempt a grapple check, and the victim takes CHA-drain.

Also yes it's giving up it's full-attack, but the feed ability targets touch AC (so much more likely to succeed) and deals ability drain, so it's pretty strong.

[Joey Cote]

"Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple)."

So I would run it as they get to add the "feeding" to "move" "damage" "pin" "tie up" options.

[Tpy0]

MrCharisma wrote:

I think the specific-trumps-general rule is in place here. It looks like the Feed option is in place of maintaining a grapple. As you say it has Grab, so if the attack succeeds it can also attempt a grapple check, and the victim takes CHA-drain.

Also yes it's giving up it's full-attack, but the feed ability targets touch AC (so much more likely to succeed) and deals ability drain, so it's pretty strong.

I don't think that's clear at all here, there's nothing in the language to imply feed is in place of maintaining a grapple, it in fact specifically calls out it has to be used on a target you are currently grappling. Short of adding class levels and grabbing some of the grapple feats, as far as I can tell this ability doesn't work at all. Grapple rules go:

Your turn

>First thing you do - choose to maintain the grapple y/n

>From there get your turn

So, if I feed, do I automatically maintain the grapple? Do I need to roll to maintain the grapple? Do I get to maintain AND feed? Can I feed multiple rounds in a row? Does the target still have the grappled condition EVEN if I don't roll to maintain the grapple? etc, etc etc.

I know of several monsters with this issue, would love a RAW clarification.

[VoodistMonk]

RAW clarification? The developers messed up. The end.

Run it how it works best at your table for the few rounds it exists. If you are going to use a lot of these monsters, decide what works best for you and just be consistent.

[avr]

I think the way it would work RAW is that the yangethe could start a grapple then next round they could feed in place of maintaining the grapple. Which would presumably end the grapple. No, it doesn't look like a great combat tactic. Perhaps a between-combats tactic on hapless peasants or livestock since doing so heals the yangethe.

Letting it work as a maintain the grapple action as Mr Charisma suggests would be reasonable without being overpowered. I don't think it's how its written at present tho'.

[MrCharisma]

Sorry, in case I wasn't clear I'm not suggesting you use this as a "maintain grapple check".

Turn 1 You grapple a creature.

Next turn you start the turn already grappling, but instead of rolling to maintain the grapple you roll a touch attack with this "Feed" ability, which if works deals CHA drain. Since you feed with your tentacle, this also includes a Grab attempt, which lets you roll to grapple again.

I guess this technically isn't "maintaining" a grapple, but since the target ends up grappled by the end of your turn (assuming you succeed) it basically ends up as the same result as maintaining a grapple.

There are 2 potential disadvantages to using this instead of simply maintaining a grapple:
1. You have to make 2 attack rolls instead of just 1 (a touch attack and a grapple check). The touch attack isn't a huge problem since most characters have low touch AC, but it's an extra chance to roll a Nat-1.
2. You don't get the +5 bonus to your grapple check to maintain.
This may or may not be how it was intended, but thematically it makes sense that when the creature tries to feed it's a little harder to hold you down than it would be otherwize.

There are 2 advantages to using this tactic:
1. You deal Ability Drain to your target (that's Drain, not Damage, Drain is much much worse).
2. This is how the creature feeds, so presumably if you don't do this you'll eventually die. You don't have to feed on PCs, but all the non-PC feeds probably happened off-screen.

How does that scan?

[Diego Rossi]

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/yangethe/
Linkified.

Barring some attack of opportunity plus ready action shenanigans by the yangethe, I don't see a way for it to use the ability against a grappled creature, but it can use it against a helpless creature.
Combined with the Psychic Blast it can work on some adventurer, but it practically useless against appropriate level opponents.