Shield block and Champion's Retributive Strike

[Sc8rpi8n_mjd]

Hi everyone.

A player of mine has asked me a question about this two game elements and the order of resolution in a situation where both apply. I have tried searching the internet for answers but I find nothing on this specifically.

Imagine two PCs. One of them has a shield raised, it is hit by an enemy, and uses Shield Block. This PC has another ally, a champion, that is in range and uses Retributive Strike to reduce the damage of the attack.

How do you resolve this? wich one goes first, Shield block or Retributive Strike?

Thanks!

Shield Block:

Shield Block Reaction Feat 1
General
Source Core Rulebook pg. 266 2.0
Trigger: While you have your shield raised, you would take damage from a physical attack.
You snap your shield in place to ward off a blow. Your shield prevents you from taking an amount of damage up to the shield’s Hardness. You and the shield each take any remaining damage, possibly breaking or destroying the shield.

Retributive Strike:

Retributive Strike Reaction
Champion
Source Core Rulebook pg. 107 2.0
Trigger: An enemy damages your ally, and both are within 15 feet of you.You protect your ally and strike your foe. The ally gains resistance to all damage against the triggering damage equal to 2 + your level. If the foe is within reach, make a melee Strike against it.

[Leomund "Leo" Velinznrarikovich]

the shield block is applied last, after weaknesses and resistances.

[Ravingdork]

For shield block to even work properly, you need to know how much damage you've taken. You can't know how much damage you've taken until you account for resistances and the like.

Therefore Leo is correct. Weaknesses and resistances first, then shield block.

[Sc8rpi8n_mjd]

Thanks guys!

[Bluejay_Junior]

Leo or Ravingdork, could you please elaborate on why that is the case? I am new, so I am still learning the rules and want to understand why this is the case.
My first instinct when looking at just the feats would be to rule shield block and then retributive strike. I am basing this on the triggers. Retributive strike triggers when an ally takes damage. Wouldn't Shield Block have to be resolved first in order for that to happen? Because if Shield Block reduced the damage you take to 0, then Retributive Strike couldn't be used.
Please let me know if I am missing something here.

[Loreguard]

Blue jay, technically I believe you are correct. As retributive strike is contingent on the damage happening, and shield block is triggered by damage about to happen, but retributive strike retroactively applies resistance to the individual for the attack. So you would calculate the damage from attack, the choose of if they shield block is made, based on that. Then if damage gets through to ally, the retributive strike gets triggered and resistance is retroactively applied to the attack. This could then reduce or eliminate any or all damage damage done.

[Palinurus]

Loreguard wrote:

Blue jay, technically I believe you are correct. As retributive strike is contingent on the damage happening, and shield block is triggered by damage about to happen, but retributive strike retroactively applies resistance to the individual for the attack. So you would calculate the damage from attack, the choose of if they shield block is made, based on that. Then if damage gets through to ally, the retributive strike gets triggered and resistance is retroactively applied to the attack. This could then reduce or eliminate any or all damage damage done.

It could be clearer. The trigger is "An enemy damages your ally ..." and this must refer to a damaging effect being successfully applied rather than the damage being calculated. The latter is step 4 in the sequence for calculating damage and resistances are applied in step 3. So if the trigger was step 4 then retributive strike would never have any effect at all.This is also consistent with "On a successful check, you hit and deal damage" earlier on the same page.

So shield block applies after retributive strike.