Barbarian warlord (with the marshal archetype) what instinct?


Advice


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I have wanted to play a barbarian warlord type for a long time (ever sense I read the thane barbarian in dnd 4e) and my gm has a whole part of her setting that is barbarian warlords trying to conquer each other. This seems like the perfect time to try out the concept!

what I know; I want to play a barbarian with the marshal archetype. What I am not certain is what instinct would work best, what weapons to use, what race to play, or what feats to take.

Any advice?


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While fury is a bit basic, it does have its advantages. It doesn't have any specific feats, but that means there is more you can spend into marshall without feeling like you are missing out.

You don't feel like you have to justify anything flavor-wise- you don't have the blood of dragons or speak to spirits. You are just really angry. Both mechanically and thematically, it is the most neutral instinct, and lets you just rage while focusing on something else as your main narrative draw.

Fury has lower damage than other instincts, but it is just normal raw damage so no resistance problems. The defenses are pretty good if you are facing human-ish enemies that focus on weapons.

Polearms are always great weapons if you can grab Attack of Opportunity. Hammers have a good crit effect (which also plays nice with AoOs when enemies stand up from prone).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
lemeres wrote:

While fury is a bit basic, it does have its advantages. It doesn't have any specific feats, but that means there is more you can spend into marshall without feeling like you are missing out.

You don't feel like you have to justify anything flavor-wise- you don't have the blood of dragons or speak to spirits. You are just really angry. Both mechanically and thematically, it is the most neutral instinct, and lets you just rage while focusing on something else as your main narrative draw.

Fury has lower damage than other instincts, but it is just normal raw damage so no resistance problems. The defenses are pretty good if you are facing human-ish enemies that focus on weapons.

Polearms are always great weapons if you can grab Attack of Opportunity. Hammers have a good crit effect (which also plays nice with AoOs when enemies stand up from prone).

I honestly didn't even consider Fury, it just seems kind of boring thematically. I suppose thematically a lot of your flavor is covered by being a warlord type, and fury could bring some good mechanics! Do you think fury is a fun one to play? Most of our enemies would be humanoids or fey, so that should be good! polearmsound like fun!


Yeah, if you are fighting lots of weapon wielding opponents, it's actually pretty solid, as well as between bonus Feat and no unique Feats you aren't worrying as much how to fit both Totem and Archetypes Feats along with any other good basic Barbarian Feats. The only other one off the top of my head might be Spirit if you want to lean into that angle of culture/world, but not particularly because it's mechanically better unless you expect Undead or Ethereal foes alot.


The build needs a bit of Charisma. So its got 5 attributes that it wants to rank. Which is a challenging. Heavy Armour is Tempting, either Sentinel or just from a general feat to buy you time to rank your DEX later.

One of the human ancestries is probably best to get you an extra level 1 class feat.

There is so much in Marshall that you can spend almost all your feats on it.

The main thing for me is party composition:
Is there a dedicated buffer in the party because your abilities will overlap a bit.
Do you have a couple of other melee types in your party, or a couple of archers? Its going to change your feat selection a lot.


Map out which Marshal feats you want (probably not as many as you'd think when compared to the solid Barbarian options), and how many actions they'll take. That'll give you an idea of which Instincts mesh best mechanically, though I think you'll find most do since they don't rely on their feats.

They can all represent a barbarian warlord and perform viably so I'd ask which fits the image you've developed re: your warlord?
If he's wielding a melee weapon, then Animal's out, though maybe he does like to tear his opponents apart by hand (claw, et al). Pounce works well for action economy, making it more likely to get in an attack each round.
If he calls upon energy (primal forces?) then Dragon w/ its energy AoEs.
If he worships his ancestors and enjoys fighting undead, then Spirit (which has a good ranged attack, again aiding w/ getting in an attack each round while juggling actions.)

Would not recommend Superstitious though, and Fury is kind of boring as you've noted. Unless primarily fighting enemies who wield weapons (Edgewatch?) I wouldn't recommend it, though maybe you want that extra 1st level feat and dislike having an anathema (which can be notable drawbacks).

Personally, Marshal doesn't support my vision of a warlord and I'd likely go MCD Bard instead though Marshal Stances are more efficient w/ actions.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Marshall is going to take a good portion of your actions. Animal Barbarian with level 9 Human Multitalented into Monk will open up Flurry of Blows at level 10.

With this you'll be able to spend a two action To Battle to enable your allies a Quickened Strike and still be able to attack twice on your own by Flurrying your Animal Rage strike.


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lemeres wrote:
While fury is a bit basic, it does have its advantages. It doesn't have any specific feats, but that means there is more you can spend into marshall without feeling like you are missing out.

Actually, as of the APG there's Furious Vengeance. It's only one feat, which you obviously don't have to take, but I think it's inclusion indicates that there'll be more fury-instinct-only feats in future adds to the barbarian feat list.

And personally I don't find Fury boring. Most PF1 barbarians would have the Fury instinct if converted to PF2, I think, and those were fine and flavorful just with Raging....

EDIT: that last part is in reply to other people (who've called Fury boring), not lemeres.


So, just putting this out there; Dragon Instinct combined with Dread Marshal Stance works thematically (Frightful Presence is one of the most iconic dragon abilities) and mechanically since there are some Barbarian feats, including one that requires Dragon Instinct, that want you to have as good Intimidation as you can get.


One funny thing you can do is play a leshy.

Leshies have stats that work fairly well for a str/cha based character. And more importantly, they have a feat that lets them turn most 2 handed martial weapons into reach weapons (minus the existing reach weapons, of course).

The feat trades damage for reach, and you just spend an action to switch back and forth on how you grip your weapon. The main advantage of this is that it lets you get weapon properties and weapon categories that were not meant for reach. So you can grab a big ol' hammer and just ruin someone's day from across the room.


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Fury can work, since the moment you equip most two handed weapons your are doing similar things to that of a animal barbarian especially at lower levels.

no anathema can be a godsend depending on your GM as well.

Liberty's Edge

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Becoming Large with the Giant totem seems to have a nice synergy with the aura and the adjacent ally's requirements of the Marshal feats.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
lemeres wrote:
While fury is a bit basic, it does have its advantages. It doesn't have any specific feats...

Actually, as of the APG there's Furious Vengeance.

And personally I don't find Fury boring. Most PF1 barbarians would have the Fury instinct if converted to PF2, I think, and those were fine and flavorful just with Raging....

I was glad to see that one, the design space was obviously available there to be used. Fury has plenty more room to be fleshed out in specific feats (even if it's also good as 'blank slate' for archetype builds), but eventually I'd even like more 'non-supernatural' Insticts, that just go in different direction than however Fury ends up (e.g. a more defensive one, a more tactical one etc).

I agree on your 2nd point also, if anything I find the other 'supernatural' ones boring since they seem all about reducing to specific concrete image, less feeling of open-ness as a character. Not that I'm slagging on those as such, but when people call Fury boring I think they are just saying it isn't providing that instant simplistic image that others do.

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