DM starts a 5e game. No session 0, no theme or plan or even real setting. The starting town has a name but we're not from there so we know... nothing.
As session 1 opens we're railroaded. I let it go for the session, which ends up with the DM being very overbearing and controlling. DM openly mocks us for bad decisions in game while simultaneously providing no other descriptions of cavern dungeon rooms than for example: you see a 10' wide rough hewn hallway with 2 side tunnels, one to the left, one to the right. What do you do?
I talk to the DM of my concerns after session 1. DM actually laughs at me, suggests I may be overthinking things too much. Admits that yes, the monsters were pretty tough but he wants to challenge the PCs. I counter with the fact that both me and the 1 other player are brand new to 5e D&D; everything is a challenge.
Session 2 includes a world map w/no names other than the town we're from and the one we're going to. We got a little more detail from the DM for descriptions, but still feels like pulling teeth to get that. I didn't have the time to chat with the DM after last session so I send him an email.
I started and ended the email with the things I like about the game so far. I was also self-deprecating. The main body of the email are several questions about the larger setting. Things seem to make no logical sense such as:
We're starting in a shanty town that barely gets by on trade with seafarers; the town has a rare and valuable shell the merchants want. Otherwise there is no industry here. However, there is a GIGANTIC hardwood forest on the very doorstep of the town that has been unclaimed for over a century; the town has never exploited this resource.
There are no support settlements in the hinterlands and nearly 100,000 sq miles of empty road between the town we're in and the city to the north. The DM describes that this whole region used to be a kingdom controlled by our base town but it has faded into obscurity. Not devastated by war, or plague, or apocalyptic cataclysm, just bad fortune. Now there's just the town... NEXT TO AN IMMENSE FOREST!
In session 2 the DM hinted that there's a great and distant empire that controls the city to the north and other large regions of the land. Our characters are given no other info than that.
There are no common monsters, no rumors, no info or gossip shared by seafarers or the occasional overland traveler. The town's one pub has... no name.
I specifically asked about these and other points in my email. The DM just got back to me saying since my character isn't very politically minded (Hill Dwarf Cleric, Tempest Domain, with an Outlander background) and has no Proficiency with History so...
He knows nothing more.
So I've lived as a guide in the hills near the base town, using that place as the source for my guide business per the DM from session 1, for at least the past 5 years, and in that time I still don't know any details of the great empire to the north, why there's no forestry in town, what the name of the one pub here is, what's typically in the woods, whether or not the empire has designs on the town, if there are any other settlements of merit nearby, and if the orcs I wrote into my backstory that destroyed my original homeland are the SAME orcs that were told to us in session 1 that, several decades ago, destroyed the only other major settlement in this area.
The DM once again said I was overthinking things. He challenged me specifically on the bar. To paraphrase: if I knew the name of the pub, would that change my engagement with the game? Would I ever use that information again?
He went on to defend the lack of info and detail. This part I want to quote: "I used to create a lot more detail for my games but it just ended up as wasted energy on my part. I keep it intentionally vague on purpose so you'll find something to do so I don't have to hold your hand."
Again, the first two sessions saw our characters railroaded. Hard. We were made to save an elder from a disease and despite having a paladin whose first level power is SPECIFICALLY curing diseases the ONLY solution was magic water, in a cave dungeon, behind a town ruined by orcs. The second session opened with the elder we saved telling us that he MUST deliver a message to his associate in the northern city but we are the ONLY mortals strong enough to pull that off.
If the DM didn't want to hand hold us, why did he give us back-to-back missions with only one possible solution that only our characters could possibly pull off? Then game 1 he laughed at me for overthinking. Now in the email he's purposely dodging my questions and telling me I'm going to have to adventure to figure it all out. Adventure... to find out the name of my LOCAL pub? Adventure to learn about commerce?
I want to ragequit this campaign so hard. I don't have any other games right now, can't seem to get online games to work, and this guy is someone I hang out with as friends away from the game table. His wife is one of my best friends. In fact, she was the one telling me this DM was super depressed that his last game didn't work out and what a bad place he was in.
Now I feel obligated to stay, but I also feel like I'm being absolutely ridiculed by a DM who doesn't think I "get it." I've been playing and running games of my own in multiple systems for over three decades dangit!
RGGGHHH! STUPID QUARANTINE!
If anyone has ANY advice on any other tactic I can try, I'm open to about anything at this point.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
As you well know, no one else can keep you from being depressed.
It's not possible to make anyone else 'feel' any particular emotion on command. And it's not your responsibility to try to fix his feelings.
She's your friend.
He's your friend.
He's depressed.
If the tactic of "keep him from feeling depressed by letting him GM" isn't working for you (or for him, apparently), try to figure out a social activity that the three of you can engage in that doesn't involve him being a GM.
Making your own life worse in a fruitless attempt to make his better isn't helping anyone.
Quit the game. Find some other way to be supportive. Don't be a martyr, sacrificing your own mental health, in a situation that is making things worse for everyone.
Mark Hoover 330 wrote: This part I want to quote: "I used to create a lot more detail for my games but it just ended up as wasted energy on my part. I keep it intentionally vague on purpose so you'll find something to do so I don't have to hold your hand." I started reading this thinking "Maybe he had some players who just eschewed all the background info and finer details for the sake of being dungeon-running murder-hobos."
Then I got to the part about holding your hand, and that made me think that he's just being a bit more lax in this area than necessary.
While he sounds depressed, I think the lack of detail is a problem that stems from before this game (just a guess).
I'd echo what CrystalSeas is saying. Especially in these times, its more important that you find a way to support him without sacrificing your mental health, and if it turns out that you have to choose between your own mental health and his, you should choose yours.
I am going to agree: Let the GM know that this game just isn't your cup of tea and that you are resigning respectfully.
If you can, offer another outlet for your friend. While you're not really that into his GMing style, maybe he'd be a good board game player: D&D might be right out, but maybe he'd enjoy playing something like Ticket to Ride or Settlers of Catan or Arkham Horror?
By the way: If you're looking to get a little role-playing gaming in, The Gauntlet Online Gaming Community is running a free mini-convention called Gauntlet Community Open Gaming Weekend later this month.
Gauntlet Community Open Gaming
Registration has been open for a few days, and many games are already full, but there are still games with open slots. Also: People regularly drop at the last minute, so add yourself to the waitlist of any games you're interested in playing.
I am scheduled to run two games (Trophy Dark and Swords of the Serpentine). They're both already full, but I am strongly considering adding a session of Escape From Dino Island.
Thanks everyone for the support and advice. Haladir, thank you for the link. I'm on my work computer right now so it won't open, but I'll get in there on break and check it out. I could use the change of pace if I can jump into a game.
Ironically the DM and I do typically play board games together. Sometimes his wife joins in on those, sometimes not, but at board game nights his old gaming group used to be involved, but isn't anymore.
I guess there was some kind of falling out between the DM and his old group. Not only is the DM currently seeming depressed but per his wife he's also got a bit of a hair trigger temper. Well, I guess his temper flared one too many times with his old group, some things were said on both sides, and now he hasn't gamed with them for all of 2020.
Whatever. I know it'll put a rift between me, the DM, and his wife/my friend, but I gotta be done with this game. He sent a text following up the email last night, asking if I had more questions. Long story boring, he doesn't believe he's railroading us, he knows he's being vague but its for good reason, and my "feelings" about the game are just that, feelings, not proof of anything he needs to improve on or fix.
Maybe he's right. Maybe all of this is just my opinion. But the fact that he's then arguing with my opinion instead of at least trying to understand HOW I formed that opinion is enough to know that, in a game system where often I'll have to ask this DM to subjectively decide how my character's actions be resolved, this lack of quorum is detrimental.
In other words, every red flag is telling me that for this DM it's his way or the highway. Period. He's not interested in seeing eye to eye with me; he's the authority, I'm just the peon at his table.
Well, that's not how I play. It has NEVER been how I play, even when I run games poorly. These games, in my OPINION, are meant to serve everyone at the table and include all participants equally, even if the DM is ostensibly in charge of running things.
Mark Hoover 330 wrote: He sent a text following up the email last night, asking if I had more questions. Long story boring, he doesn't believe he's railroading us, he knows he's being vague but its for good reason, and my "feelings" about the game are just that, feelings, not proof of anything he needs to improve on or fix. Emphasis added.
That is a GIANT RED FLAG.
(Disregarding other people's feelings plus a "hair-trigger temper" together make a grim warning that this guy may be abusive in general. To be honest, I would be very concerned about your friend that he's married to. But that's another topic that goes beyond the scope of this discussion forum.)
If you tell someone that you have qualms about something they're doing, then you have qualms about it. Period. By definition.
You have told him that you don't consent to the things he's doing in-game. He replied that he doesn't need your consent to do what he's doing.
You don't have to put up with that. You shouldn't put up with that.
Leaving this game is a gift you can give to yourself!
The longest and shortest of it: You're not enjoying the game and it's likely the DM is not going to make any concessions in order for the players to do so. The longer you stay in this game the less you're going to enjoy it. It's best to just resign as respectfully as you can. It might cause a rift in your friendships if doing so, but that problem really doesn't lie with you, but them.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Some good GM excuses in here.
"Naming everything is a waste of my time."
"You don't have that knowledge skill."
If you start asking to roll on the rumor table he might throw you out of the game. Problem solved.
Seriously, I thought he was using random tables for everything till you got to the part where he would not even roll up a random tavern name.
Yeah, that one kind of threw me G Squared, especially when in follow up emails and texts this DM alluded to there being a lot more setting info my character just doesn't know b/c he doesn't have the right skills/I haven't asked the right questions, in game.
So if you've done lots of work on the setting, and I walk into a pub, and it's a pub that I, ostensibly, have visited multiple times over the past 5 years at least in my role as a local guide, that leads me to believe that there actually ISN'T a name for the place.
The best was meeting the bartender. My character is Adrick, the paladin is Hescrum
DM: Ah, well-met Hescrum and Adrick! I heard you saved Reginald Drake from that deadly disease! That deserves a round on the house!
Me: Thanks... ah... bartender I've suddenly forgotten the name of!
DM: Yeah, remember Adrick? My name is... (DM pauses, eyes dart up and to the left, takes a few seconds) Tom. I run this pub, remember?
So yeah... there's no larger setting stuff. He's gaslighting me, making stuff up as he goes, then playing it off like he had this stuff prepped this whole time.
The only things that seemed pre-planned are the dungeon maps, some of the encounters, and the fact that there's a large, oppressive empire on the outskirts of the region in which we're currently adventuring.
Now I don't have a problem with random tables. One of the best 3 game session arcs I've had I a long time came from a random table. So long as you're willing to ad-lib stuff, random tables are the bomb. Thing is, you have to CARE about setting details and stuff outside of combat to use the majority of the random tables out there.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
From what I've read, the only thing this game is missing is an overpowered GMPC. That'd complete the trifecta right there.
It sounds like the GM is burned out creatively and doesn't want to admit it.
Given your relationship with the GM and his wife I'd probably just roll with it for awhile and just let him riff and see if things improve or if nothing else offer to take over.
I'd also suggest running published adventures, and let someone else do the creative heavy lifting while he works through his funk.
Honestly, that's what happened to me, i was in a bad place and I couldn't focus on the little things that flesh out adventures so I started looking for something I could get ideas from and that's how I discovered Pathfinder.
I get Depression I suffer from it. I am on medicine for it if he's not have his wife suggest something to his doctor for it. Most family general practioners can and will perscribe something. He may need more but the medicine is a good start.
If his playing style has always been like this Depression or no Depression it's not worth playing with him. He's insulting players for making bad choices. That's just being a jerk. Railroading PCs is another sign he's a jerk as well. I get sometimes needing to guide PCs to point A to B. It's one thing if they have all the information. It's another if the DM tells them nothing except yell at them go here stupid. One session of that I'm having a chat with the DM with me more then likely leaving the group period.
I'm seeing three p roblems from a GM perspective he could have done to fix it better. Not naming everything isn't always important. But if you are asked to name something name it then write the name down. Simple but effective. So what if PCs never visit the bar again you now have a name to maybe use later. Railroading the PCs to go to the cave for a cure. Have the town suffer from the disease. The magical waters in the town well will fix everyone right up. Impress upon the PCs curing one a day won't do it especially if the disease is highly contangious.
The fact he has plans for the world is nice but he hasn't planned past that. He should have started and stayed local working out from there.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
I really like running "non-linear" stories. My games aren't always true "sandbox" settings but I encourage my players to think of goals and then find ways to solve them, rather than goading them down the one solution I think is "correct."
To that point, one of the adventures I like starting a campaign with is Hollow's Last Hope. Sometimes I run it exactly as written, sometimes just styling my own adventure on the module.
Regardless, the basic premise is: the town is suffering a disease and the local herbalist needs ingredients to make a cure. The PCs are told of 3 different ingredients, with three different potential places to find said ingredients.
Beyond that, it's up to the PCs. They can attack them in any order they want, in whatever way they want.
Full disclosure... I DID end up sticking with this DM, this game. Back a couple months ago I suggested he look at Hollow's Last Hope as a guideline for how he could've run the start of his game, but the DM told me he only runs his OWN stuff, never uses modules.
I made a deal with him that since I've endured the "rough patch" in his game he's gotta bite the bullet and let me run him in PF1. I'm going to start with Hollow's Last Hope. I wonder if he'll notice.
Right on! I find myself following this saga like my mom did "Days Of Our Lives"...LOL. Let us know how it goes!
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Another possible(?) way to look at it -- if you don't want to hurt a friendship and stop gaming -- is by changing your mindset to accept a DM that is completely new to DMing. I mean, as I was reading the first few of these posts my guess was that it was just a completely new DM struggling through 'new-DM-issues.' (Of course, when he said he 'used' to do the DM prep-work but it became a waste of time, well, guess not (unless he's lying). But still, if you don't want to upset your friend -- who is the DM's spouse -- and really want SOMETHING to play over-the-table, maybe, er, maybe think of this as a new DM who's gonna Railroad the game and isn't gonna be prepared for an in-depth campaign background. ....Of course, be prepared to be Completely Turtled when you get to the giant, powerful, evil empire up north. Guaranteed it's the DM's baby that he loves and loves and loves, and it's gonna be way overpowered, and he loves it so much you won't be able to defeat any of his beloved NPC antagonists.
Then finally, once he's finished his poor adventure, let him know that y'all are ready to give him a break from DMing and that someone else will take over.
. . . .
Recent threads in General Discussion
|
