Why is Reflexive Grip only half a feat?


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Reflexive Grip from Pathfinder Society Guide says You keep hold of your weapons even when knocked out. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to your Reflex DC when defending against checks to Disarm you.

However, it's prerequisite feat, Swordmaster Dedication, says the same thing! Though that's not the only benefit to Reflexive Grip, it does make me wonder why it is mentioned at all.

Should it have been a different or increasing bonus perhaps?


Ravingdork wrote:

Reflexive Grip from Pathfinder Society Guide says You keep hold of your weapons even when knocked out. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to your Reflex DC when defending against checks to Disarm you.

However, it's prerequisite feat, Swordmaster Dedication, says the same thing! Though that's not the only benefit to Reflexive Grip, it does make me wonder why it is mentioned at all.

Should it have been a different or increasing bonus perhaps?

Hmmm... I'd look it up if it was after I got the PDF on the 14th...


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I think I've been watching Jason too much, I'm starting to really get into the dark magic of Necromancy!

Anyway, this is a REALLY good question that doesn't seem to have been touched on AT ALL by ANYONE!

Does the Reflexive Dodge Feat bonus combine(yes I know two bonuses of the same kind don't USUALLY stack) with the one the Swordmaster gives you when you take the Dedication Feat, or is it considered a different bonus so they stack in other ways, or is this only half a feat as OP has asked?!


2+2=/=4WTF!null...x.x

Liberty's Edge

Does not combine by RAW. Would apply for effects that disarm you but are not foes though.

But really the other half is a pretty good feat by itself.

Horizon Hunters

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They probably had the +2 bonus in the feat first, then decided to add it to the dedication later without updating the feat. I would still take it for the not dropping weapons part, which is super powerful and can save 1 to 2 actions when getting back into the fight. It's even better if you also have Kip Up, it would almost be like you never went down.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cordell Kintner wrote:
They probably had the +2 bonus in the feat first, then decided to add it to the dedication later without updating the feat. I would still take it for the not dropping weapons part, which is super powerful and can save 1 to 2 actions when getting back into the fight. It's even better if you also have Kip Up, it would almost be like you never went down.

Alternatively, play a monk or animal totem barbarian.


Or a spellcaster. Which are also the most likely to go down in the first place.

Liberty's Edge

Eoran wrote:
Or a spellcaster. Which are also the most likely to go down in the first place.

I think a caster would like to not drop their staff if they go down ;-)


Perhaps. Some casters would be more impacted by it than others. A staff nexus Wizard would certainly not appreciate having to continue a battle without their staff.

Personally I wouldn't spend two feats and an archetype slot for it. Even dropping my bow isn't more than a mild inconvenience, especially when compared to the problems of still being low on HP and wounded.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Eoran wrote:
Or a spellcaster. Which are also the most likely to go down in the first place.

Funny. My casters tend to go down less than a 10th of the time the martials do. Most battles, I don't even lose any hit points (not counting temporary hit points).

Horizon Hunters

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Swordmaster is geared toward Martial characters anyway, unless you have all your Casters with 14 Str Dex and Con.

Liberty's Edge

Ravingdork wrote:
Eoran wrote:
Or a spellcaster. Which are also the most likely to go down in the first place.
Funny. My casters tend to go down less than a 10th of the time the martials do. Most battles, I don't even lose any hit points (not counting temporary hit points).

Reach spell FTW.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Cordell Kintner wrote:
They probably had the +2 bonus in the feat first, then decided to add it to the dedication later without updating the feat. I would still take it for the not dropping weapons part, which is super powerful and can save 1 to 2 actions when getting back into the fight. It's even better if you also have Kip Up, it would almost be like you never went down.
Alternatively, play a monk or animal totem barbarian.

Monks need to spend an action to get back in their stance (though just using powerful fist instead may be sufficient) and barbarians need to do so to rage. And unless you have second wind you can't even do that. Which is really bad for an animal barbarian whose weapon essentially becomes a d4 at that point.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
Monks need to spend an action to get back in their stance (though just using powerful fist instead may be sufficient) and barbarians need to do so to rage. And unless you have second wind you can't even do that. Which is really bad for an animal barbarian whose weapon essentially becomes a d4 at that point.

That's why I like Orc/Half-orc or Iruxi for animal barbarian. They have good unarmed attacks in their own right.

Bloody Blows (level 5 Orc feat) is really great as it gives all your unarmed attacks 1d4 bleed. I'm hard pressed to find a better level 5 feat.


The Raven Black wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Eoran wrote:
Or a spellcaster. Which are also the most likely to go down in the first place.
Funny. My casters tend to go down less than a 10th of the time the martials do. Most battles, I don't even lose any hit points (not counting temporary hit points).
Reach spell FTW.

I usually make good use of defensive spells like Shattering Gem, HP boosting spells like Sanguine Mist, and enemy movement delaying spells like Grease. But such things don't always work. And they are of limited quantity.

I have found that being too far away from my allies can be just as dangerous as being too close to the known enemies. If there are other enemies that we were not aware of at the start of the battle, I can end up being attacked by them and have my allies too far away to help.

So maybe you have some advice for how to handle that scenario? When your party gets ambushed and attacked from multiple directions at once. How do you handle that?

Liberty's Edge

Day-long Longstrider and Invisibility might help.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Raven Black wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Eoran wrote:
Or a spellcaster. Which are also the most likely to go down in the first place.
Funny. My casters tend to go down less than a 10th of the time the martials do. Most battles, I don't even lose any hit points (not counting temporary hit points).
Reach spell FTW.

I wouldn't know as I typically favor long range spells to begin with (such as ray of frost, magic missile, lightning bolt, and fireball).

Eoran's advice of sticking to "medium" range is good advice. I once lost a monk due to being too far from the party (a sub-boss flanked behind the party, jumped my monk, then dragged her unconscious body into another encounter area, where she was literally fed to a carnivorous spider swarm).

It also isn't so far away that I can't open up with my short range spells afyer a single Stride, or should an enemy decide to close the gap.

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