summoner my Ver 0.001a

[CrimsonKnight]

This version in an alpha state I did pull a lot from Verzen's home brew but added other ideas from the forum as well as my own. it is not finished but I tried to match with the power of the game wile adding meaningful choices to try to bridge the PF1 summoner into the PF2 paradigm. I know this wont be fully embraced by some of my side as it goes into feats for customization and no point buy.
I'm only focusing on the eidolon in this document and the summoner's class feats as it pertains to the eidolon in this example write up
Eidolon
The Eidolon gains
HD: Shared
Your Eidolon gains a stat array of 18/16/14/12/10/8. Choose how to distribute these stats in any way you wish.
expert unarmored defense at level 1, master unarmored defense at level 13,
expert unarmed attack at level 5, master unarmed attack at level 13.
Pick two saves. Your Eidolon is an Expert in both those saves.
At level 7, pick a save to go from expert to master. Increase a save to go from trained to expert.
At level 13, pick a save to go from expert to master.
At level 17, pick a save to go from master to legendary and another save to go from expert to master.
At level 1...
Pick a creature type. Your Eidolon is considered any one of the creatures listed from the creature type.
Choose two different common simple or martial weapons. Your Eidolon gains the damage and the traits associated with that weapon, but the attack itself can be described as anything associated with your Eidolon. One of these attacks can instead of traded for 1d6 damage if ranged [short bow damage] or use the Elemental Wrath cantrip [elf ancestry feat] except at melee range and no AOO.
choose an eidolon tactic at level 1, 7, 17
Eidolon tactics [these are all actions or reactions]
level 1
Breath Attack (2 actions) - see playtest
BEAST’S CHARGE (2 actions) - see playtest
power attack
ATTACK OF OPPORTUNITY [possibly move it to 7th]
(wolf trip)
constrict
RETRIBUTIVE STRIKE [Dutiful Strike] - see playtest
quick strikes [flurry of blows]

level 7
fury [dragon fury] - see playtest
greater constrict
Primal Roar
(more will be added)

level 17
energy blast 2 actions centered on eidolon creatures around eidolon take energy damage
trample
swollow whole - requirements must be huge
greater breath attack [wyrm's breath] -see playtest
(more will be added)

feats remain the same except added
level 1
Resistance - Pick a energy resistance. You gain 1/2 level in resistance.
precise strikes - add dex mod to precision damage with unarmed strikes
level 6
poison 1d4 damage extra melee. con save
level 8
flight [slight modification to the flight spell once per day]
gain flight 5 min per day.
at level 13 1 hour per day
at level 17 at will/permanent
(more will be added)

undecided [and questionable] level feats
Fast Healing - While in combat, the Eidolon gains fast healing equal to 1/2 your total level.
Physical Resistance - Pick a physical resistance. Your Eidolon gains resistance that that physical attack type equal to 1/2 your level.
Incorporeal (3 actions) - Your Eidolon is able to switch from being incorporeal to corporeal. While Incorporeal, your Eidolon can take no actions except for movement actions and can only stay incorporeal a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your level per day.

else ware in the book
general feat
transformed casting
can cast wile wild shaped or synergized with eidolon

I want to help develop something we can submit for consideration
feedback and support welcome

[Verzen]

if support this but I feel 1/7/17 is just too few imo. I think 1/5/10/15/20 with that same theme would be pretty awesome.

[Deriven Firelion]

This summoner class is complicated. I been working on some rules modifications to post up and it is taking a while. You really have to think about how all these parts work together. You don't want to make the combination too strong, but not too weak either. You have to think about action possibilities, comparative AC, and how to allow customization without causing more headaches or creating paths of obviously superior optimization.

Every other class has been pretty easy to assess and adjust. This summoner is not easy at all. Even the Magus has a lot of easy fixes to boost it up. But juggling all the summoner balls is a pain in the ass.

[Sedoriku]

Hrmm, would a potiential to add skill feats to the eidolon instead of the summoner be an option?

Additionally I think 3 combat abilities over the life of the Eidolon is good, assuming there are abilities that cost class feats as well.

Finally switching out the elemental wrath cantrip option for a two action, set damage dice ability instead might work better. Not all cantrips were made the same (electric arc *cough*). Also not sure how balanced choosing your own martial weapons could be, given that they cannot be disarmed or wouldn't face the troubles that a metal weapon would. Also would they be limited to simple, martial, advanced, ones the summoner would have access to or all uncommon and rare options too? 'cause that would really affect the ability's balance.

[CrimsonKnight]

Deriven Firelion wrote:

This summoner class is complicated. I been working on some rules modifications to post up and it is taking a while. You really have to think about how all these parts work together. You don't want to make the combination too strong, but not too weak either. You have to think about action possibilities, comparative AC, and how to allow customization without causing more headaches or creating paths of obviously superior optimization.

Every other class has been pretty easy to assess and adjust. This summoner is not easy at all. Even the Magus has a lot of easy fixes to boost it up. But juggling all the summoner balls is a pain in the ass.

yes this is complicated. customization and complexity seem to go hand and hand. I try to utilize abilities that have some president to help me balance things and it maybe a bit powerful. I've been trying to simplify things wile still having meaningful choices but for now I'm out of ideas.

[CrimsonKnight]

Sedoriku wrote:

Hrmm, would a potiential to add skill feats to the eidolon instead of the summoner be an option?

I was thinking about adding the skill feats to the synergist option later but I guess a class feat option/cantrip also work

Sedoriku wrote:

Additionally I think 3 combat abilities over the life of the Eidolon is good, assuming there are abilities that cost class feats as well.

I plan add some

Sedoriku wrote:

Finally switching out the elemental wrath cantrip option for a two action, set damage dice ability instead might work better. Not all cantrips were made the same (electric arc *cough*).

no all cantrips are not the same and elemental wrath is both the most customizable and one of the weakest damage cantrip in the game. acid, cold, electricity, or fire as choices (chosen in this case at first level) and heightening only at 5,9,13 and 17. the two action costs should also help keep the damage potential down.

Sedoriku wrote:

Also not sure how balanced choosing your own martial weapons could be, given that they cannot be disarmed or wouldn't face the troubles that a metal weapon would. Also would they be limited to simple, martial, advanced, ones the summoner would have access to or all uncommon and rare options too? 'cause that would really affect the ability's balance.

it is highly likely that paizo will include things like locking gauntlets at some time. choosing freely among simple and martial weapons is something most characters have as options and so far lack silver, cold iron, adamantine for options. Advanced, uncommon and rare would really affect the ability's balance. that is why it is limited to common simple and common martial weapons.

[CrimsonKnight]

change log
Elemental Wrath cantrip to energy strike 1d4 energy damage (acid, cold, electricity, or fire)