|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Given all the talk of different possible versions and some people saying that Points would not be balanced I figured that it would be good to try and convert the Unchained Summoner evolutions and see how that might look like.
As of this post I only have the 1-point evolution but even then I think its a lot more versatile than the current PF2 version.
PF2 Summoner Potential Evolutions based on PF1 Unchained Summoner
I left comments open if anyone wants to leave potential suggestions.
I will work on the rest later since there are still 3 more tiers of evolutions and maybe also converting the Subtypes to fit the PF2 balancing point.
What do you all think would this work for PF2? What would you all think would need to be changed?
* P.S. I left the strikes as "Gain X strike with Y traits." because coming up with proper traits for natural attacks is kind of difficult.
* P.S.S. If nothing else by doing this I hope to show that Eidolon evolutions dont have to be lame but can be quite interesting. The 1 point evolutions are kind of the bottom of the barrel when it comes the Eidolon Evolutions.
Temperans wrote: What do you all think would this work for PF2? What would you all think would need to be changed? Turn them into feats.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
cavernshark wrote: Temperans wrote: What do you all think would this work for PF2? What would you all think would need to be changed? Turn them into feats. The summoner won't get enough feats to make it feel customizable. 1 evolution every even level feels... bad.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
cavernshark wrote: Temperans wrote: What do you all think would this work for PF2? What would you all think would need to be changed? Turn them into feats. That is not helpful. The point of this is exploring what would make this system useable.
Other people are working on the potential feat aspect.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Honestly, I'd like to keep away from any 'must have' Eidolon feats such as "increasing the damage die"
I'd also like to keep away from any "Pincers, tentacles, claws" evolutions and instead add in an evolution that just gives them an optional weapon trait that they can use and limit that amount to 2 weapon traits. For example. Venom. Part of the Eidolons body holds a particular deadly venom. It could be the tail or it could be dripping from their fangs.
Or claws. Instead, grab. Part of your Eidolon has the power to grab an enemy. It's possible your Eidolon is a snake that wraps itself around an opponent or your Eidolon is a large brute, capable of bear hugging an opponent. Either way, your Eidolon knows how to grab enemies.
Leave it open ended enough to let the player decide HOW their Eidolon does the mechanic.
So reduce the number of strike evolutions got it.
Sadly I am not very good at coming up with weapons that have the proper traits. If someone could give me some idea on a potential generic strike evolution that would be great.
Temperans wrote: cavernshark wrote: Temperans wrote: What do you all think would this work for PF2? What would you all think would need to be changed? Turn them into feats. That is not helpful. The point of this is exploring what would make this system useable.
Other people are working on the potential feat aspect. Really? Because most of your list are already base options or evolution feats in the play test, which probably is only a fraction of the final ones
You already pick two natural attacks and their damage types. Which become magic, increase damage dice, and gain properties. You can already give them cantrips, innate spells, climb speeds, swim speeds, scent, weapon properties, magic resistant, damage resistant, size, riding.
There's only a few that on your list not present. That seems plenty usable.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
A generic strike that they automatically get doesn't need a name. It's generic. Leave it how it is in the playtest.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
cavernshark wrote: Temperans wrote: cavernshark wrote: Temperans wrote: What do you all think would this work for PF2? What would you all think would need to be changed? Turn them into feats. That is not helpful. The point of this is exploring what would make this system useable.
Other people are working on the potential feat aspect. Really? Because most of your list are already base options or evolution feats in the play test, which probably is only a fraction of the final ones
You already pick two natural attacks and their damage types. Which become magic, increase damage dice, and gain properties. You can already give them cantrips, innate spells, climb speeds, swim speeds, scent, weapon properties, magic resistant, damage resistant, size, riding.
There's only a few that on your list not present. That seems plenty usable. Did you play summoner in 1e? He is trying to recreate that system to see how it looks.
Ah okay so just not make it an evolution sure then.
******************
Cavernshark Mark went through what evolutions are in the playtest and which were in the APG Mark's post
What I am doing is talking about how it would be balanced if the customization is done via points instead of feats.
Which is a very different system.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
In fact, Temp, I'd even go so far as to provide them an option of attack from a list. They start with one bludgeoning, piercing, slashing, electricity, acid, sonic, fire, cold, or negative energy damage attack. Just give them that for free as their attack. They can pick up evolutions later to help diversify themselves.
Remove ALL arms and legs mutations. Don't need em.
If you want an evolution that increases speed, call it something like Quick or some such.
Arm evolutions are useless due to MAP and the 3 action economy.
Verzen wrote: Did you play summoner in 1e? He is trying to recreate that system to see how it looks. I understand exactly what he's doing. I'm questioning the necessity, utility, and value of doing it. There's a lot of good reasons to leave pieces of 1E back in 1E. The version they've presented here is already cleaner even with the issues it has.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
I am doing it because it makes no sense that Familiar are getting the Eidolon customization. But the Eidolon itself no longer has it.
Its the Equivalent of giving Barbarian's rage to the Fighter and then giving the Barbarian some random bonus that makes no sense.
Or giving the Bardic Compositions to the Druid/Cleric, and then wanting to make Bards a single target ability.
The fact the system already exists in PF2 but is not being adapted to work on the origin of that system is the problem.
* P.S. Its the same problem with Magus who is not getting Spellstrike, but Eldritch Archer already has it.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
cavernshark wrote: Verzen wrote: Did you play summoner in 1e? He is trying to recreate that system to see how it looks. I understand exactly what he's doing. I'm questioning the necessity, utility, and value of doing it. There's a lot of good reasons to leave pieces of 1E back in 1E. The version they've presented here is already cleaner even with the issues it has. The version they've presented here is bare bones with zero room for real customization.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
And no. Giving us 1 feat every even level isn't enough to make it feel good.
I have finished doing most of the Unchained Eidolon Evolutions some of them are really hard to do with out some back and forth and agreeing on a base.
Do these seem like worth while evolutions?
The current costs are assuming that the Eidolons get evolutions points at the same rate as in PF1 Unchained.
Assuming that the number of evolution points drops down to say 12 (3 + 1 every odd level after first), the biggest change would be reducing the additional cost of abilities from 2+ to only half. Ex: Instead of 10 points for a huge eidolon, it would be 7 points.
Of course none of that includes bonus evolutions from Eidolon subtypes or summoner feats.
******************
Alternately, if people are greatly concerned about it not costing feats. It could be spread like this:
Eidolon gets for free those from the subtype and 3 extra. The "expanded evolution" feat tree (3 feats 1 for each evolution tier) then give the Eidolon 3-4 evolution points and unlocks the next tier.
Very much similar to how other classes spend feats to get more familiar options. But with an added tier system to distinguish between the weaker and more power evolutions.
Recent threads in Summoner Class
|
